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Slowmotion
Joined: 15 Aug 2009
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 Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| conrad2 wrote: |
Eff that noise. I would write a letter to the principal stating that your co teachers wants you to unjustly punish students who are up to par but who the co-teacher doesnt personally like. Write a letter to the student's parents as well.
Isnt it your "stamp" policy? Your policy-your rules. Have some back bone. |
There is a hierarchy system in Korea. You don't just go directly to the principal. On top of that you expect the principal to understand his letter in English? |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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whose reward system is it and who is paying for the rewards?
I dunno, but if its yours, and if youre the one footing the bill, you get to make the rules on the levels of acceptable participation. If its hers, and she, or the school is fitting the bill then she/the school gets to call the shots.  Seems pretty straightforward? |
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sadguy
Joined: 13 Feb 2011
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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it's my stamp system with MY rewards. she has her own stamp system when they go to her class.
here's the thing, when my 3rd graders from last year were in 2nd grade, a lot of them forgot their materials. it was annoying when they sat there with no book on the table or no pen. since starting this system, it helped reduce that to an extent that i continue to do it.
i do it with my first graders now and 100% of them bring all of their materials to class, even the low level kids. so if anything it's building good habits.
and, as i've already said, i gave her the letter, she read it, she made a joke, we laughed and shook hands. this morning things are back to normal. i don't like going to the VP or P to fix my problems, i feel like it's best to resolve things within your own department and really really really try not to get the VP involved. and yeah, it was a dumb argument and i felt like i got sucked into it. lesson learned. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
I keep their stamp charts with me at all times during the class, in the class folder... that way, they can't spy on each other and compare each other's progress or antagonize each other about who has minuses and who has pluses-- and no one feels like a loser or a winner. When they're at 0 or negative, then I see that and they're the first ones to get chosen in class. They're also allowed to help each other out. Better yet, I can call them all by name.
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Well that's why I said you don't give out minuses, so students don't see who has all the red checks by their name. I use a rotational system in my class, so they are constantly climbing up and starting over at their own pace. When you look at the charts you can't tell who is ahead and who is behind because some students have finished climbing and are starting over on the bottom, whereas some students are still on their first trip up towards the top. But they never go down.
But in your method, by always choosing students who aren't following directions first and overlooking those who do. Aren't you essentially rewarding their bad behavior? Aren't you always doing a disservice to those who do follow directions and earn a lot of stamps by passing them over?
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| The minuses aren't for them, they're for me... they see them going into my book and being recorded so they know that they did something wrong-- but they don't have it sitting there in front of them, reminding them of what a failure they are-- only I know where they are, and I trust myself to handle the problems with sensitivity... with the final goal of helping everyone to stay out of the hole. |
But don't you think that their classmates also see you recording marks in your book for bad behavior? That causes shame as well. So I don't really see the difference. And like I said again, you don't take away and mark bad marks in the system where the students hold the chart.
[qoute]Stamps don't have to be about competing or rewarding or shaming-- they're about keeping track and identifying problems. That's sort of what teaching is, isn't it? You'll be surprised how well-behaved the students can be if they know you're watching them. So yeah, I know their names, their numbers, their participation level, if they're having behavior problems, I know if they're well-behaved but afraid to speak, and they know that I know... it's all there in my folder-- and nobody else knows except the student and myself.
And I never yell--I've never had to.[/quote]
Just because a teacher uses a Postive Behavior Intervention System or stamp system for good behavior doesn't mean they ignore bad behavior or don't address it. It has nothing to do with competition. It gives the students a motivating and clear goal to work towards. The point is to put the emphasis on rewarding good, honorable and productive behavior. Instead of continuously punishing/marking students for mistakes/judgement lapses, you are rewarding them and praising them to improve their self efficacy. It creates a positive learning environment. While at the same time those students who struggle are addressed individually to correct their behavior and are held to the consequences (reflection form, a note home that they have to write, a phone call, missing out on PBIS class party, etc...)
The important thing is to that the kids understand and accept the rules, rewards and consequences and the teachers are consistent. What the OP and the Coteacher did undermined their system because they weren't being consistent. Doubly, they also didn't make it clear what the consequences were by. Third, they modeled bad conflict management behavior by bickering in front of the students. But it's good that the OP wrote the letter to sort it out so they can both move on professionaly for the betterment of the students. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
I have to agree with RMNC (I think)-- stamps are rewards, not damage control. You're rewarding them for doing things that they should be doing anyways. Bringing your book to class is a given... if they can't get that right, then they're lost. You have to push them to push themselves.
If you don't show up for work one day, does that mean that you just don't get paid for that day and then everything is fine next time? No, it means that you are unreliable, and counts as a black mark... or you'll be fired.
It doesn't matter if you meant well or not-- those aren't the kind of people who do well in life... socially or academically. If you accomodate that kind of thing, then you're basically encouraging kids to be mediocre. No wonder your co-teacher was upset! You've lowered the standards so that neutral behavior is a positive and negative is a neutral. So there's incentive to not be a loser, but there's no incentive to really achieve anything. Positive behavior is built on the basics... start actively rewarding the positive and you'll see that the basics take care of themselves.
It's kinda hard to switch up now without looking totally clueless/putting up with a lot of whining, but next semester I would suggest getting a plus AND minus stamp. I had mine done at one of those key-cutting places-- they're colour-coded so everyone sees the red one and knows that it's a bad thing, or sees the green and knows it's a good thing. They hate getting minuses, even if they don't really mean anything in the end. |
By the same measure, the employees that always show up on time and are prepared for work are looked at as reliable and industrious. They receive the promotions and the raises. Their responsible behavior and work ethic is rewarded!
Furthermore, the OP and myself are talking about elementary school students. This is the age where students are LEARNING organization skills (how to put papers in a binder so you don't lose them, being prepared for class and other activities, remembering to do homework). They are also LEARNING how to be industrious (how to accomplish tasks, manage time, etc...). Your students are going to fall on a broad spectrum of ability when it comes to these two aspects of development. Rewarding the behavior that you want (being prepared, managing time, staying organized) is a great help to all these students because it reinforces this good behavior.
Punishments only last as long as they still sting. So when the sting goes away, so does the lesson about why they were stung. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't know about your school, but I leave the discipline / reward systems up to the Korean co-teacher. I don't touch that stuff. It's their issue not mine. Wading into those areas only cause risk and heartache. Go in, teach, and go home. (Try to be friendly with the kids in between. Avoid co-teachers as much as possible.) Key to surviving a Public School. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
By the same measure, the employees that always show up on time and are prepared for work are looked at as reliable and industrious. They receive the promotions and the raises. Their responsible behavior and work ethic is rewarded!
Punishments only last as long as they still sting. So when the sting goes away, so does the lesson about why they were stung. |
Unless you're talking about ESL, I don't think that merely showing up and being competent gets people promoted. You have to show certain traits that make people feel like they can trust you to lead, or with more responsibilities... you have to push yourself in order to get ahead.
And I don't think it's really a punishment so much as a 'Hey, you really need to do something about this' kind of thing. |
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jrwhite82
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ESL Milk "Everyday wrote: |
Unless you're talking about ESL |
LOL. 
But going from an entry level position to the next step up, this is exactly what people look for. The people who are trusted to do their job are given extra responsibilty and pay.
Same as in school. The students who are responsible, work hard and improve move on to AP/GT classes or in Korea, get tracked into the better secondary schools.
Giving stamps in elementary school is a good way to reward the students for being prepared, actively participating, and completing tasks about and beyond the standards. (That's how I use them anyway) I don't see how taking their stamps away will be effective in the long run. Especially with the worst offenders. |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:58 pm Post subject: |
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| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| But in your method, by always choosing students who aren't following directions first and overlooking those who do. Aren't you essentially rewarding their bad behavior? Aren't you always doing a disservice to those who do follow directions and earn a lot of stamps by passing them over? |
I don't think that focusing on them is a reward, and I also don't think that those who follow directions tend to have problems about speaking up in class... they get to lead debates and do other things. But for the easy questions, I choose someone who needs it.
| jrwhite82 wrote: |
| But don't you think that their classmates also see you recording marks in your book for bad behavior? That causes shame as well. So I don't really see the difference. |
I don't think that avoiding shame is necessarily a good thing. It's not like it's outright humiliation... it's just like 'I told you the rules, you broke the rules, and now you get a minus'. Everyone in the class knows the rules... and they can accept that they have to deal with the consequences. And if you see they're having problems, that's when you confront them and ask them what they want to do about it.
And anyway, I was under the impression that the OP was teaching middle school-- I don't think he has said on this thread that he's talking about elementary, but he mentioned first and second graders so I'm assuming middle school, because for the most part we don't come in until grade 3 in elementary.
If they're not remembering their books when they're 6, then yeah, you can't really be a jerk about it, but if they're 12 or 13, then they're just laughing at you... |
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mike in brasil
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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The OP is going against Korean culture. Koreans try harder when scolded, not coddled. It blew my mind when I realized that it was how things worked in Korea.
Positive reinforcement is a western concept and as westerners we have come to believe that "everyone deserves a stamp", just so nobody is left out and everyone is treated as an equal.
In Korea there is only one place, first place. 2nd place isn't something to be proud of in Korea. |
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ippy
Joined: 25 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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baseline 60% grades at middle school tell you you're wrong
Im continually asked to mark up and the explicit reason given is that you should encourage students just in case. |
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Tippecanoe
Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Location: Hwaesong City Korea
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| Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:03 am Post subject: |
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There is a communication problem and I want to resolve it in a professional manner
The problem is the part that is in bold. You see what I have found is quite obvious. You can't solve these problems in a professional manner because you are not in a professional environment and these are for the most part(not all) unprofessional people. Just nod your head and finish your contract and try to forget about it. If you want a professional environment go work at Samsung. |
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