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Why work at a public school with a co-teacher? (INSANE)
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Zackback



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:17 pm    Post subject: Why work at a public school with a co-teacher? (INSANE) Reply with quote

You're just asking for trouble. Yeah I know there are some that can be cool and/or hot but man having someone scrutinize how I teach all the time and nitpicking about everything? There is no way I would ever work at a public school (again).
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Ramen



Joined: 15 Apr 2008

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Why work at a public school with a co-teacher? (INSANE) Reply with quote

Zackback wrote:
You're just asking for trouble. Yeah I know there are some that can be cool and/or hot but man having someone scrutinize how I teach all the time and nitpicking about everything? There is no way I would ever work at a public school (again).


not if you're the scrutinizer and nitpicker. Razz
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Fishead soup



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The secrete is to just ignore them. I've got one real nitwit who thinks my class is too difficult and boring. Despite the fact I use Baam, Mario, Robots and Aliens. plus pop songs.
She complains when I use the Andrew Finch PHD Tell Me More worksheets. She's really got it in for me. The worksheets are awesome it really gets the students speaking. I personally can't stand her.She also hates it when I use Interchange too. In short she complains a lot when I actually teach. She only likes it when I'm playing games. She belittles and downplays the students abilities. I'm seriously thinking of reporting to the POE her advice is really deliberately bad.
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RMNC



Joined: 21 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed with the OP. And public schools place you randomly, risk you being stuck with a nutty co-teacher or administration, expect you to know how to deal with 35 insane Korean children, make you go to two or more schools every day, pay you peanuts, make you deskwarm 20 hours a week, and then cut you at the end of the year?

I'll do my research, find a decent hagwon, be at work fewer hours, and roll in the dough.
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ESL Milk "Everyday



Joined: 12 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A great public school is usually still light years ahead of a good hagwon. A bad public school is still light years ahead of a bad hagwon. The odds are that you'll be happier in a public school.

I like everything about my school and my job... my co-teachers, the staff, the principal, the vice principal, the students, the work, the freedom, the extra classes-- everything. The only thing that I don't like is the idea that I might lose it due to budget cuts before I want to leave...

Also, I actively seek out my co-teacher's opinions on my lessons... but they always tell me they're good or at least fine... they're too busy to really dedicate massive amounts of time to nitpicking-- I suspect that if this is happening to you, you've done something to make them angry, or they're racist.
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sadguy



Joined: 13 Feb 2011

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fishead soup wrote:
The secrete is to just ignore them. I've got one real nitwit who thinks my class is too difficult and boring. Despite the fact I use Baam, Mario, Robots and Aliens. plus pop songs.
She complains when I use the Andrew Finch PHD Tell Me More worksheets. She's really got it in for me. The worksheets are awesome it really gets the students speaking. I personally can't stand her.She also hates it when I use Interchange too. In short she complains a lot when I actually teach. She only likes it when I'm playing games. She belittles and downplays the students abilities. I'm seriously thinking of reporting to the POE her advice is really deliberately bad.


what are the andrew finch phd worksheets?
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Fishead soup



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sadguy wrote:
Fishead soup wrote:
The secrete is to just ignore them. I've got one real nitwit who thinks my class is too difficult and boring. Despite the fact I use Baam, Mario, Robots and Aliens. plus pop songs.
She complains when I use the Andrew Finch PHD Tell Me More worksheets. She's really got it in for me. The worksheets are awesome it really gets the students speaking. I personally can't stand her.She also hates it when I use Interchange too. In short she complains a lot when I actually teach. She only likes it when I'm playing games. She belittles and downplays the students abilities. I'm seriously thinking of reporting to the POE her advice is really deliberately bad.


what are the andrew finch phd worksheets?


TESL journal Under things for teachers or finch park.com
Tell Me More and Keep Talking the long dictations are really good for your advanced classes. Gets that Buzz of activity
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jrwhite82



Joined: 22 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RMNC wrote:
Agreed with the OP. And public schools place you randomly, risk you being stuck with a nutty co-teacher or administration, expect you to know how to deal with 35 insane Korean children, make you go to two or more schools every day, pay you peanuts, make you deskwarm 20 hours a week, and then cut you at the end of the year?

I'll do my research, find a decent hagwon, be at work fewer hours, and roll in the dough.


Well, things are rapidly changing for the public schools. (especially with these budget issues) When I was hired, I was able to interview directly with my school and coworkers. I interviewed at 4 schools, got 4 offers and took the one I wanted. So I chose where I wanted to work. And all the public jobs were better than what I could find in the hagwon market at the time.

Most jobs don't require you going to more than one school...maybe 5%. And the deskwarming part, I'm usually busy planning, which I don't mind. It's better than teaching 30 full hours a week like most hagwons make you do. Obviously there are some really sweet hagwons out there, but geographically and timing wise aren't always viable for everyone.

I also enjoy my longer vacations. I find if you do a good job, your principal is more relaxed with his discretion about deskwarming too. Wink

So I wouldn't throw in on the towel yet for public schools. It's easy to look at them in poor light when you combine all the worst aspects of it into one job.

Likewise, I could say that hagwons suck because the director tries to cheat you. You have to teach 30 hours a week. You don't get insurance or pension. Also, he will fire you in the 11th month. They pay you late. They don't let you take sick days. You only get 10 days of vacation but the way they count it is to include weekends as part of the 10 days. And you have to do split shifts. See...anyone can play that game! Laughing

But seriously...I agree with you that the gap is narrowing.....
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Fishead soup



Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrwhite82 wrote:
RMNC wrote:
Agreed with the OP. And public schools place you randomly, risk you being stuck with a nutty co-teacher or administration, expect you to know how to deal with 35 insane Korean children, make you go to two or more schools every day, pay you peanuts, make you deskwarm 20 hours a week, and then cut you at the end of the year?

I'll do my research, find a decent hagwon, be at work fewer hours, and roll in the dough.


Well, things are rapidly changing for the public schools. (especially with these budget issues) When I was hired, I was able to interview directly with my school and coworkers. I interviewed at 4 schools, got 4 offers and took the one I wanted. So I chose where I wanted to work. And all the public jobs were better than what I could find in the hagwon market at the time.

Most jobs don't require you going to more than one school...maybe 5%. And the deskwarming part, I'm usually busy planning, which I don't mind. It's better than teaching 30 full hours a week like most hagwons make you do. Obviously there are some really sweet hagwons out there, but geographically and timing wise aren't always viable for everyone.

I also enjoy my longer vacations. I find if you do a good job, your principal is more relaxed with his discretion about deskwarming too. Wink

So I wouldn't throw in on the towel yet for public schools. It's easy to look at them in poor light when you combine all the worst aspects of it into one job.

Likewise, I could say that hagwons suck because the director tries to cheat you. You have to teach 30 hours a week. You don't get insurance or pension. Also, he will fire you in the 11th month. They pay you late. They don't let you take sick days. You only get 10 days of vacation but the way they count it is to include weekends as part of the 10 days. And you have to do split shifts. See...anyone can play that game! Laughing

But seriously...I agree with you that the gap is narrowing.....


Things have been going downhill since that Child molester was caught in Thailand after working in Korea. It used to be a real sweet deal.
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chrisinkorea2011



Joined: 16 Jan 2011

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i must be lucky then, i have a great school. everyone there save for 1 teacher is awesome (he is a complete douche). And i teach 22 hours, 18 hours i am doing various things that keep me busy but i also get to teach extra hours and get paid for it. EVERYone that i know who works in a hagwon dislike the job and out of 7 days complain 6 of them. i feel for hagwons that also try to rip their employees off and fire them giving bad excuses etc
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Why work at a public school with a co-teacher? (INSANE) Reply with quote

Zackback wrote:
You're just asking for trouble. Yeah I know there are some that can be cool and/or hot but man having someone scrutinize how I teach all the time and nitpicking about everything? There is no way I would ever work at a public school (again).


As opposed to a hogwon job? Pros and cons to both. Generally speaking, all things considered (less teaching hours, more vacation time, solid contract) public school jobs are better.
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SeoulNate



Joined: 04 Jun 2010
Location: Hyehwa

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just my 20 won:

Personally, I would never go back to working at a Korean public school because I cant stand to have someone looking over my shoulder all the time who knows much less about the subject matter and education in general then I do. In addition, I make way more $$ at hogwons, work less hours, as well as have more lesson freedom and respect.

However, even with that said, I would still recommended that newbies take public school over hogwons any day of the week. There are tons of excellent hogowns out there, but I would say that 99% of the time, that is not the job a newbie is going to get. Those jobs are obtained by making personal contacts and hitting the streets with your resume and knowledge, not by contacting a recruiter from overseas. On the other hand, I would say that probably 50% of public schools suck a fat one and 50% are decent or better.

With that said, as a newbie, you should probably go for the 50/50 instead of the one in a hundred odds.
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RMNC



Joined: 21 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jrwhite82 wrote:
Likewise, I could say that hagwons suck because the director tries to cheat you. You have to teach 30 hours a week. You don't get insurance or pension. Also, he will fire you in the 11th month. They pay you late. They don't let you take sick days. You only get 10 days of vacation but the way they count it is to include weekends as part of the 10 days. And you have to do split shifts. See...anyone can play that game! Laughing

But seriously...I agree with you that the gap is narrowing.....


Remind me to never let you review contracts again Laughing

You should know better! Pension and insurance is mandatory of course for all schools, public and private, and only sketchy schools will do that. The 10 vacation days never count weekends. Split shifts? Only for adult hagwons, and it's not some kind of surprise that you're going to do them when you sign a contract. I may teach 30 hours a week but I'm only there for 35 hours total, as opposed to every EPIK teacher I know who teaches 22 hours a week and is still there for 40 hours a week. 3+ hours of deskwarming? I'd rather work.

As for the directors being shysters? Well like everything else, you have to do your research of course. Talking to current and former teachers will root out 99% of the bad schools.

So yeah, you won't get as many vacation or sick days, but as long as you talk to the people that work there, those are the only downsides. Also at public school you have people trying to tell you your teaching style or lessons are too hard or too easy, and you have to make all your own lesson plans. At a hagwon you just show up, do what the book says and leave.
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Zackback



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So true. Just follow the book and that's it. Not much (oftentimes none) prep is needed. In terms of hours I average aout 25 a week.
.....and the thought of not having that co-teacher around is really nice.
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jrwhite82



Joined: 22 May 2010

PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha. Laughing

I know that pension and insurance are mandatory....except at your shadiest of hagwons who break the rules.

I was just trying to draw a parellel between bad hagwons and bad public schools. You cherry picked the worst qualities of public schools and combined them into the Voltron of bad public school jobs. I was trying to do the same with hagwons.

I'm of the mind that the top 5%-10% of hagwon jobs beats out the top 5-10% of public jobs. But for the rest of us who are either new, restrained by time or by geography, your average public school job beats out the standard hagwon.

Most (not all) hagwons require you to be there a full 8 hours (or more!) a day. They want you there for doing some kind of basic prep, level testing new students, parading your face around to parents during interviews, calling students, writing BS evaluations, etc...

I taught the 30 hour a week thing at a hagwon before. And like most other hagwons it was a full on 30 hours. When I do my 22 "hours" now. It's 22 40 minute classes. This means I do have a lot of free time at work. But that free time is spent doing lesson planning, studying Korean, playing fantasy sports, trolling Daves and Waygook. So I keep myself pretty busy because most of the time I am doing actual work and I don't feel bored. And I like to do it here instead of at home where I'm busy with a million other things.

Some people hate it, others like it. I'm in the like it crowd.

Again it comes down to your personal preferance. Comparing your standard hagwon to standard public school job:

Do you like to work mornings or evenings? Teach more hours or "work" more hours but have more vacation? Roll the dice on a CT or a Wonjongnim?

So yeah, if you are in the position to wait it out, are in country to network, don't have other mouths to feed and can live anywhere in Korea you want or got incredibly lucky through a recruiter....then sure stick it out until you get that top 5%-10% of hagwon jobs. However, if you're new to the game in Korea, need to work ASAP and/or can't live with only 10 days of vacation that you get no say in when you can take, you're better off going public.
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