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[Ya-ta Boy]

I can sympathize with people who are non-interventionist. I'm one sometimes myself. I definitely agree the US should not play the world's policeman. I definitely think we should take care of our people at home before we go spreading money around elsewhere. I lend a lot of credence to the idea that if you spend as much as all the rest of the world put together on building the world's biggest hammer then everything starts looking like a nail. I'm convinced that most of the serious challenges we will be facing in this century will not lend themselves to a military solution.

But I am also not an isolationist. That has never been possible. If you look at our entire history, you will see we got dragged into every major war Europe had since the late 1600's and started one of them ourselves in the 1700's. Then we got independence and got involved in the War of 1812 which was a sideshow to the Napoleonic Wars and both world wars. We are and always have been a part of the world. We cannot avoid it.

Question: How much of the defense budget should be cut?

[Butterfly]

[Ya-ta Boy]

The New Yorker (magazine) has a lengthy article giving the first semi-sorta inside look at the decision making that went into the Libya decision that I have seen. The thing is 10 pages long and the part that is most relevant to this thread starts somewhere along about the middle.

Here is part of it:

"On August 12, 2010, Obama sent a five-page memorandum called �Political Reform in the Middle East and North Africa� to Vice-President Joseph Biden, Clinton, Gates, Donilon, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the other senior members of his foreign-policy team...

�Progress toward political reform and openness in the Middle East and North Africa lags behind other regions and has, in some cases, stalled,� the President wrote. He noted that even the more liberal countries were cracking down on public gatherings, the press, and political opposition groups. But something was stirring. There was �evidence of growing citizen discontent with the region�s regimes,� he wrote. It was likely that �if present trends continue,� allies there would �opt for repression rather than reform to manage domestic dissent.�

Obama�s analysis showed a desire to balance interests and ideals. The goals of reform and democracy were couched in the language of U.S. interests rather than the sharp moral language that statesmen often use in public. �Increased repression could threaten the political and economic stability of some of our allies, leave us with fewer capable, credible partners who can support our regional priorities, and further alienate citizens in the region,� Obama wrote. �Moreover, our regional and international credibility will be undermined if we are seen or perceived to be backing repressive regimes and ignoring the rights and aspirations of citizens.�

Obama instructed his staff to come up with �tailored,� �country by country� strategies on political reform. He told his advisers to challenge the traditional idea that stability in the Middle East always served U.S. interests. Obama wanted to weigh the risks of both �continued support for increasingly unpopular and repressive regimes� and a �strong push by the United States for reform.�

He also wrote that �the advent of political succession in a number of countries offers a potential opening for political reform in the region.� If the United States managed the coming transitions �poorly,� it �could have negative implications for U.S. interests, including for our standing among Arab publics."...

The group was just finishing its work, on December 17th, when Mohamed Bouazizi, a vegetable vender in Tunisia, set himself on fire outside a municipal building to protest the corruption of the country�s political system��an act that inspired protests in Tunisia and, eventually, the entire region. Democracy in the Middle East, one of the most fraught issues of the Bush years, was suddenly the signature conflict of Obama�s foreign policy.

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2011/05/02/110502fa_fact_lizza?currentPage=all

It turns out we were not all caught as flat-footed as it seemed last February. It gives me a bit of confidence to know that the situation was anticipated and preparations were underway.

I would like to see all the plot strands resolved before the next commercial and then have a cutesy denoument before the final credits roll, because it looks like Syria is going to be a much tougher deal. I don't think the three clowns...er, senators, on the Sunday talk show have any credibility on this issue.

[Ya-ta Boy]

AP has caught up with Butterfly and me:

Gadhafi's grip on western Libya may be slipping

"TRIPOLI, Libya � Moammar Gadhafi has suffered military setbacks in recent days in western Libya, a sign that his grip may be slipping in the very region he needs to cling to power.

His loyalists were driven out of the city of Misrata, a key rebel stronghold in Gadhafi-controlled territory. A NATO airstrike turned parts of his Tripoli headquarters into smoldering rubble. And rebel fighters seized a border crossing, breaking open a supply line to besieged rebel towns in a remote western mountain area...

Yet Gadhafi appears increasingly on the defensive. And some see the past week as a turning point in the fighting, citing mounting military and political pressure on Gadhafi."

**

The other day I was reading something in another context where the writer told about a stonecutter taking 100 whacks at a rock and nothing happening, but on the 101st hit the stone shatters. It isn't the final strike that does all the damage, it is the accumulated stress that lays the groundwork. That is what I expect to happen in Libya. At some point, Qaddafi will fall, and fall fast.

For everyone's good, I hope it's soon.

[Butterfly]

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Putin is pissed off!

US attempt to Assassinate Gaddafi fails !

John McCain, Joe Lieberman and Lindsay Graham, US Senators, call for the Assassination of Gaddafi and for an all out bombing of Tripoli to overthrow Gaddafi and to install a compliant US Puppet regime as CIA proxy. There is at a stalemate due to popular peoples support for Gaddafi government.
...
The Libyan Rebels and their phony Feb 17 th movement are a creation of the CIA, the Mi6 and French Intelligence, with money and arms snuck into Libya from Qatar and Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

Al Jazeera and CNN and BBC and Fox News and SKy News are all Propaganda rags who have been working overtime to "massage" the masses of people to accept a NATO and US and French and British Invasion of Libya.

Anderson Cooper and Rachel Maddow and the rest of the fake American Liberals have actually been tripping over themselves to promote another US War for Oil in the Middle East., showing how there both the Democrats & Republicans in the US are merely two wings of one Vulture, which is US Imperialism.


Putin: Who gave NATO right to kill Gaddafi?

Who gave coalition forces in Libya the right to eliminate Gaddafi? That's the question Vladimir Putin's been asking, during an official visit to Denmark, the country which lead the first air attacks on Libya.

watch RT at link

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