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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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 Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 12:23 am Post subject: |
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I guess when all else fails you, you then generalise and won't address the points made.
As you are neither a Brit nor a European who has grown up amid great changes in the UK and European countries over the past 30 yrs or so, I don't expect you to understand what is going on.
However, the attitude you take to my posts displays a fundamental ignorance whereby you cannot separate racist right wing groups and political parties who don't want any immigration of certain countries' peoples FROM political parties and people who accept a colour-blind policy but want skilled people of any culture or country who can fit in and won't be thrown into a life of dysfunction including a welfare dependent existence or adherence to ideas such as killing or bashing gays, honour killings of your family, the subjection of women, and find it difficult to accept a civil society.
Again, generally people in the UK and Europe have goodwill for diversity if that diversity isn't expressed in ways that erode a liberal democratic norm and make demands that the people of the western host nation accommodate hate-filled mosques, covering the face inappropriately in certain aspects of public life and education, not be able to freely express skepticism of religion without threats of bodily harm and death, bury their dead with their feet pointing to Mecca, and gays remove their visibility under threat of bashings and death.
All the above demands have been made in varying degrees by harder/hardline Muslims who chose to go to the UK and Europe and are recipients of generous welfare payments and other assistance that was given to them to establish themselves. I repeat - when there is no reciprocity there is no justice.
There is a growing resentment of the concessions made in the UK and Europe (the latest will be to take in the refugees fleeing Muslim dictatorships while other Muslim nations do not look after their own) as these do not satisfy certain groups and they do not make Muslim nations take responsibility for assisting Muslim refugees.
There are also a growing number of Muslims who function well in western societies and are starting to resent fellow Muslims for their extremism and wish to curb the numbers of those who come from certain cultures which inflict the kind of harm on females that I mentioned in other posts, think gays should be thrown over cliffs, and use the freedom of a western country to agitate for Sharia law.
You don't know what you are talking about. I am also surprised at your playing the racist card to make slurs that you cannot back up.  Perhaps you honestly are confusing no immigration groups, parties and individuals with the groups, parties and individuals that believe the UK and European Union countries need to be more selective about who comes in regardless of colour in order to maintain a cohesive, pluralistic society that nevertheless has some key values that keep a civil society where the rule of law governs functioning. But you are confused.
And as for the Koreans - your comment about Koreans swimming with their shirts on so therefore they would accept Muslims being residents of Korea and dressed totally covered including their faces are utterly absurd. There are not a few Koreans who feel uncomfortable with the presence of southeast Asian guest worker neighbourhoods despite the fact that these neighbourhoods resemble nothing like ghettoes or non go enclaves.
Again, the children of international marriages are fine because they appear similar to children of two Korean parents. If Korea had even a fifth of the numbers of Muslims and other peoples who go to the UK and Europe, there would be more anti foreigner groups and they would be intimidating to any kind of foreigners.
Even now if you go by statements made in the Korean parliament, media and among ordinary Koreans, Koreans struggle to accept native English teachers on very limited visas. Do you really think if limited immigration was allowed of all kinds of people that Koreans would accept this without resorting to the anti foreigner feeling that is whipped up in parliament, the media and by other Korean sources? 
And the anti immigration parties are already in the Korean parliament. They just don't have to explain it or signal it because every major Korean party has a racially based no immigration policy. That is why Korea will never have immigration, permanent residency and citizenship even of a relatively low number compared to our countries.
Last edited by earthquakez on Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:29 am Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
You're not a good reader of long posts, are you?
Go to the sentence beginning "But whether this should be legislated for...." |
I apologize then. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you were making a statement relevant to my post that you quoted. Apparently I was wrong.
As for the rest of your rant, if you would like to discuss the finer details of the hypocrisy of restricting the freedoms of legally immigrated and native-born Muslims because Muslims in completely different countries do the same to their immigrants, I suggest we take it to another thread.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Actually the AES' official position is that unqualified/"dangerous" teachers should not be let in and that those that engage in illegal conduct should be expelled. |
It's official policy to stalk NETs on the off chance that they might be engaging in illegal and/or immoral activities. There's absolutely no need to speculate on what 'they're really about.' |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| earthquakez wrote: |
I guess when all else fails you, you then generalise and won't address the points made.
As you are neither a Brit nor a European who has grown up amid great changes in the UK and European countries over the past 30 yrs or so, I don't expect you to understand what is going on.
However, the attitude you take to my posts displays a fundamental ignorance whereby you cannot separate racist right wing groups and political parties who don't want any immigration of certain countries' peoples FROM political parties and people who accept a colour-blind policy but want skilled people of any culture or country who can fit in and won't be thrown into a life of dysfunction including a welfare dependent existence or adherence to ideas such as killing or bashing gays, honour killings of your family, the subjection of women, and find it difficult to accept a civil society.
Again, generally people in the UK and Europe have goodwill for diversity if that diversity isn't expressed in ways that erode a liberal democratic norm and make demands that the people of the western host nation accommodate hate-filled mosques, covering the face inappropriately in certain aspects of public life and education, not be able to freely express skepticism of religion without threats of bodily harm and death, bury their dead with their feet pointing to Mecca, and gays remove their visibility under threat of bashings and death.
All the above demands have been made in varying degrees by harder/hardline Muslims who chose to go to the UK and Europe and are recipients of generous welfare payments and other assistance that was given to them to establish themselves. I repeat - when there is no reciprocity there is no justice.
There is a growing resentment of the concessions made in the UK and Europe (the latest will be to take in the refugees fleeing Muslim dictatorships while other Muslim nations do not look after their own) as these do not satisfy certain groups and they do not make Muslim nations take responsibility for assisting Muslim refugees.
There are also a growing number of Muslims who function well in western societies and are starting to resent fellow Muslims for their extremism and wish to curb the numbers of those who come from certain cultures which inflict the kind of harm on females that I mentioned in other posts, think gays should be thrown over cliffs, and use the freedom of a western country to agitate for Sharia law.
You don't know what you are talking about. I am also surprised at your playing the racist card to make slurs that you cannot back up. Perhaps you honestly are confusing no immigration groups, parties and individuals with the groups, parties and individuals that believe the UK and European Union countries need to be more selective about who comes in regardless of colour in order to maintain a cohesive, pluralistic society that nevertheless has some key values that keep a civil society where the rule of law governs functioning. But you are confused.
And as for the Koreans - your comment about Koreans swimming with their shirts on so therefore they would accept Muslims being residents of Korea and dressed totally covered including their faces are utterly absurd. There are not a few Koreans who feel uncomfortable with the presence of southeast Asian guest worker neighbourhoods despite the fact that these neighbourhoods resemble nothing like ghettoes or non go enclaves.
Again, the children of international marriages are fine because they appear similar to children of two Korean parents. If Korea had even a fifth of the numbers of Muslims and other peoples who go to the UK and Europe, there would be more anti foreigner groups and they would be intimidating to any kind of foreigners.
Even now if you go by statements made in the Korean parliament, media and among ordinary Koreans, Koreans struggle to accept native English teachers on very limited visas. Do you really think if limited immigration was allowed of all kinds of people that Koreans would accept this without resorting to the anti foreigner feeling that is whipped up in parliament, the media and by other Korean sources?
And the anti immigration parties are already in the Korean parliament. They just don't have to explain it or signal it because every major Korean party has a racially based no immigration policy. That is why Korea will never have immigration, permanent residency and citizenship even of a relatively low number compared to our countries. |
In other words, "our culture is special, please try to understand."
Sound familiar? |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:51 am Post subject: |
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| geldedgoat wrote: |
| earthquakez wrote: |
You're not a good reader of long posts, are you?
Go to the sentence beginning "But whether this should be legislated for...." |
I apologize then. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you were making a statement relevant to my post that you quoted. Apparently I was wrong.
As for the rest of your rant, if you would like to discuss the finer details of the hypocrisy of restricting the freedoms of legally immigrated and native-born Muslims because Muslims in completely different countries do the same to their immigrants, I suggest we take it to another thread.' |
Ah, another poster who sees the expansion of point and citing of facts and situations to back up views to be a 'rant' because they are not prepared to really discuss the issues outlined. It's much easier to deliver a one or two sentence condemnation, isn't it, employing emotive catchphrases such as "hypocrisy". Or "racist" or "anti immigration" despite what you are being presented with.
"Hypocrisy"? Saudi Arabia, Dubai and other incredibly wealthy Muslim nations make no efforts at all to settle displaced Muslim people who share the same theocratic views. There is nothing wrong with holding that people who are convinced of certain cultural, social and religious norms that directly come into conflict with those of western nations need to resettle in Muslim countries that likewise hold these views. Why do not these wealthy Muslim countries look after their own kinds of people?
Why must the UK and European Union countries demonstrate again and again standards that other countries refuse to even think of? Hypocrisy is in the fundamentalist Wahabists demanding the right to establish mosques which exist to subvert liberal democracies with a history of Christianity. I am not at all a Christian but I know what goes on with these Saudi-funded centres of anti Christian whether liberal or conservative Christianity, anti semitic, anti secular, anti gay hatred. In fact a lot of what I know comes from Muslim friends of mine. Long before harder/hardline Muslims entered the UK and European Union and were treated generously by the system, there were many Indian and Pakistani Muslims plus Iranian Muslims who fled the Ayatollah's hand severing, women stoning regime in Iran in our countries.
Muslims in themselves are not the issue - it's how compatible certain forms of Islamic adherence are with western countries and what extent to which the rest of us should change our countries, societies and lifestyles for people who chose to enter western countries but have little or no concept of our norms. This cannot be separated from the fact that an EU passport is a gateway to all kinds of opportunities.
We are useful for offering economic opportunities as well as others but at the same time we are expected to make more and more concessions. It's a one way street where the host culture is giving benefits and being asked to give more and more while the harder line Muslims are recipients of pluralism while wanting to deny it to others.
Again, why do our countries have to continually show goodwill, modify their culture, change for certain kinds of Muslims yet the cultures some of them come from regard this as a one way street? If you find that 'racist' or 'hypocritical' talk to some Muslims who have functioned nicely for decades in our countries and likewise believe that hardline Muslims are taking advantage of us.
No I have no wish to enter into a dispute with you on another thread. You've shown in a short post that you are very selective about what you want to read. This is also a thread about rape so I won't bother educating Steel Wheels anymore about countries he or she hasn't grow up in or lived in for any length of time. |
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Menino80
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Location: Hodor?
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 6:23 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
In other words, "our culture is special, please try to understand."
Sound familiar? |
No. You are overmatched.
In other words, "We've had a robust welfare state for generations, and have attracted unskilled immigrants from societies that often don't like our society. It's time to get skilled labor and we're sick of tolerating religious extremism"
How many e-2 holders do you know that are on (nonexistant) Korean welfare? How many e-2 holders have plotted agains the Korean government? What about the 3d workers? Why is Korea's immigration numbers so low despite their globally small birthrate? Why is their birthrtrate so low relative to their per capita GDP?
Do you have any zingers for that one? Or maybe a six paragraph diatribe that fails to address anything previous posters have argued? Those are always a nice contribution. |
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towl
Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:49 am Post subject: |
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How did this become a thread about Muslim immigration!? 
I'm just dropping because I read about this in the Korea Herald today and wanted to check what people are saying about this online. And here's my two cents:
This is going completely unreported on television news.
That is what sickens me the most. Sure, newspapers can run a by-line. But there is nothing in the true Korean mass media; the television.
As for the rule of law in this country, justice, human dignity and racism. You've got to have your head so far in the sand that you're probably violating China's mineral rights, if you think these are not serious issues in Korea.
The justice system here works on the principle of 'blood money' as people have stated before. This is a fact. If you pay money, criminal procedure is dropped immediately.
Foreigners will always get screwed. This is a fact. Because the arresting officer mediates between the 'victim' and 'perp', and can choose however the foreigner will be handled.
I have a friend who last Friday was sentenced to a year in jail for a minor traffic accident. Yes, he was drunk. But after he paid a couple million, the cop still processed the case. In which country would you get a year for drink driving?
These are serious problems with this country. I love Korea and enjoy living here, but I'm not an ignorant fool. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Menino80 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
In other words, "our culture is special, please try to understand."
Sound familiar? |
No. You are overmatched.
In other words, "We've had a robust welfare state for generations, and have attracted unskilled immigrants from societies that often don't like our society. It's time to get skilled labor and we're sick of tolerating religious extremism"
How many e-2 holders do you know that are on (nonexistant) Korean welfare? How many e-2 holders have plotted agains the Korean government? What about the 3d workers? Why is Korea's immigration numbers so low despite their globally small birthrate? Why is their birthrtrate so low relative to their per capita GDP?
Do you have any zingers for that one? Or maybe a six paragraph diatribe that fails to address anything previous posters have argued? Those are always a nice contribution. |
Dress it up any way you want, just like the Minutemen, those parties use the cloak of law & order to mask a "discomfort" with people from another country.
I mean many of these parties are also anti-Jewish and have Holocaust deniers among their ranks, such as Le Pen.
Are those anti-immigrant parties opposed to Anglo-Saxons or French immigrating to their country? Is that who they have in mind? The Minutemen in America only patrol the Mexican border, not the Canadian one.
I think its absolutely pathetic the apologist stance that people are taking for those parties. The same people who rail about "Korea apologists" are doing that same dance here.
Take any of those parties political platform and change the European names to Korean ones and we would hear no end of it as an example of Korean bigotry.
But when the plank in Westerner's own eye is pointed out, out comes the Europologists. We get it, its not about immigrant rights or respect for foreigners you care about. It's about "we are better than Koreans". Accept judgment by the same standards you cast on the people here.
At least be one of those people who finds the parties of Europe abysmal. At least throw out the line of "Yes things are bad back home, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about things here." At least then you aren't a hypocrite.
I'll tell you this, if you want to understand why Koreans, and much of hte non-Western world has a problem with the West it is precisely this kind of hypocrisy. The endless lecturing while refusing to acknowledge the festering sore. Unfortunately the non-West exacerbates it by engaging in that as well, often to just as nauseatingly a degree. Human beings are a sad lot.
If we want any progress we have to fight injustices, but make sure you're policing your own house before you storm your neighbors.
I mean that's really what a big chunk of the Korea bashing is all about, a way to deflect attention from the problems someone has in their own world. If it were real problems people might actually take action, but instead its just a bunch of internet rants. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Take any of those parties political platform and change the European names to Korean ones and we would hear no end of it as an example of Korean bigotry |
Opposition to mass immigration and multiculturalism (as demonstrated by Korean immigration laws) are already firmly entrenched in Korean politics. There is no need for an 'anti-immigration' political party. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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So wait, one poster says that these European Anti-Immigration parties are simply trying to "curb the excesses" of immigration law, you know requiring things like a certain level of income, language proficiency, etc. But if the Korean government requires those things to become a citizen then that exemplifies the "racist nature" of Korean immigration policy.
Koreans could do the exact same things as Europeans, but people on this board will claim its wrong for no other reason than because it is Korean.
You'd think 'Gusts of Popular Feeling' or one of those other blogs would have a huge spread on the Anti-Immigration views of Korean politicians.
Instead its the same AES story that led to the, gasp!, requirement of Criminal Background Checks and HIV tests for teachers.
I mean, I can google the Freedom Party or National Front or Jorg Haider's group and find a treasure trove of slime. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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| You'd think 'Gusts of Popular Feeling' or one of those other blogs would have a huge spread on the Anti-Immigration views of Korean politicians |
You don't get it. There is no need for Korean politicians to take an 'anti-immigration' stance, because immigration, visa, and nationality laws that are in place already prevent large-scale immigration and settlement of foreigners in Korea. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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| bigverne wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You'd think 'Gusts of Popular Feeling' or one of those other blogs would have a huge spread on the Anti-Immigration views of Korean politicians |
You don't get it. There is no need for Korean politicians to take an 'anti-immigration' stance, because immigration, visa, and nationality laws that are in place already prevent large-scale immigration and settlement of foreigners in Korea. |
1. Maintain a legal address for five years in Korea
2. Must be an adult, according to Korean law (= 20 years old)
3. Must have clean and orderly behavior (= no criminals or those with communicable disease)
4. Must have the ability to support oneself, or must have other family members who can support the whole family (usually proven by a professional license, real estate deeds, or a bank account with at least $30,000)
5. Must have basic Korean language ability and knowledge about Korean culture (involves written test and an interview � the test is around fourth grade level.)
Now is it a walk in the park? No. But for say, the US, its no walk in the park either. Would everyone who met those requirements be accepted, of course not. Are people falling over themselves to try?
I mean don't those seem like reasonable requirements?
How is it okay for European anti-immigrant parties to advocate for similar measures but wrong for Koreans to do so? Simple, because they are Korean.
Koreans could have a liberal immigration policy and people here would complain. I mean look at NETs and how they get when Filipinos or Indians are mentioned as potential NETs. |
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PBRstreetgang21
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Location: Orlando, FL--- serving as man's paean to medocrity since 1971!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 26, 2011 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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One of the things I saw a lot of while running through this thread is how this incident and others shouldn't be used to paint Korea as a "dangerous" or "crime-ridden" country. Not that I am saying that Korea is either one of these things-- it is not. However, the notion that Korea is by any means "safe" is farcical at best. The truth is the violent crime rate for Korea is actually slightly HIGHER than the US. While the US has a murder rate that is double that of Korea, overall violent crime is still a large problem. This is especially true of sexual crimes. Now many statistics would seem to indicate that the US has a much higher sexual assault/rape rate than Korea, and that may very well be true. However, it is worth pointing out that women in the US are FAR more likely to report sexual crimes than Korean women.
Here are some stats:
http://ataglance.wordpress.com/2006/12/24/violent-crime/
http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2009/08/crime-and-punishment-in-korea.html
http://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2010/08/26/2010082600727.html
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita
Korea is certainly not Honduras or South Africa, but the notion that somehow this place is "much safer" let alone even just "safer" than back home is really based on mis-perception.
The Chosun Ilbo did a story awhile back bout a tai driver who admitted to having raped over 100 women over a 10yr span before getting caught. Do you ever see those taxi drivers that have their picture and name covered on their registration cards? I don't know why they do but after reading up on crime here I have a few ideas. . . |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Menino80 wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
In other words, "our culture is special, please try to understand."
Sound familiar? |
No. You are overmatched.
In other words, "We've had a robust welfare state for generations, and have attracted unskilled immigrants from societies that often don't like our society. It's time to get skilled labor and we're sick of tolerating religious extremism"
How many e-2 holders do you know that are on (nonexistant) Korean welfare? How many e-2 holders have plotted agains the Korean government? What about the 3d workers? Why is Korea's immigration numbers so low despite their globally small birthrate? Why is their birthrtrate so low relative to their per capita GDP?
Do you have any zingers for that one? Or maybe a six paragraph diatribe that fails to address anything previous posters have argued? Those are always a nice contribution. |
Dress it up any way you want, just like the Minutemen, those parties use the cloak of law & order to mask a "discomfort" with people from another country.
I mean many of these parties are also anti-Jewish and have Holocaust deniers among their ranks, such as Le Pen.
Are those anti-immigrant parties opposed to Anglo-Saxons or French immigrating to their country? Is that who they have in mind? The Minutemen in America only patrol the Mexican border, not the Canadian one.
I think its absolutely pathetic the apologist stance that people are taking for those parties. The same people who rail about "Korea apologists" are doing that same dance here.
Take any of those parties political platform and change the European names to Korean ones and we would hear no end of it as an example of Korean bigotry.
But when the plank in Westerner's own eye is pointed out, out comes the Europologists. We get it, its not about immigrant rights or respect for foreigners you care about. It's about "we are better than Koreans". Accept judgment by the same standards you cast on the people here.
At least be one of those people who finds the parties of Europe abysmal. At least throw out the line of "Yes things are bad back home, but that doesn't mean I can't complain about things here." At least then you aren't a hypocrite.
I'll tell you this, if you want to understand why Koreans, and much of hte non-Western world has a problem with the West it is precisely this kind of hypocrisy. The endless lecturing while refusing to acknowledge the festering sore. Unfortunately the non-West exacerbates it by engaging in that as well, often to just as nauseatingly a degree. Human beings are a sad lot.
If we want any progress we have to fight injustices, but make sure you're policing your own house before you storm your neighbors.
I mean that's really what a big chunk of the Korea bashing is all about, a way to deflect attention from the problems someone has in their own world. If it were real problems people might actually take action, but instead its just a bunch of internet rants. |
I was going to drop out of this but I honestly can't let Steel Rails deliberately distort what I am saying as well as what others are saying.
How many times do you need to read it before you get it? 
ANTI IMMIGRATION PARTIES AND PEOPLE ARE NOT THE SAME AS PARTIES AND PEOPLE THAT
accept immigrants on a colour-blind basis (race/ethnicity of every kind is acceptable) but want certain criteria to decide who comes to their countries.
These criteria include the ability to live in a liberal western society without seeking to impose cultural norms and rules from traditional societies that have not changed their ways from centuries ago, where taking the law into your own hands is sanctioned, where honour killings are permitted, where women are subordinate under religious and secular laws, and you don't owe any allegiance to your new home precisely because of your traditional views.
The criteria also include having certain skills especially skills that are needed by the country you want to live in. Not only will that help newcomers integrate more quickly but it will also ensure that they don't fall into the dependency trap of living off the state especially in times of ballooning budget deficits, housing shortages, and crises such as the poverty of old people and mentally ill citizens who need dwindling govt resources.
If you and your goat friend cannot understand these fundamental differences between right wing racist parties, groups and individuals, and the views I outlined above, then you truly are perception illiterate. But if you and your goat friend will persist in twisting them then shame on you for misrepresenting them and by doing so trying to smear me as a racist.
You'd better smear many Muslim people I know back home, too, if that is the case. They also want more selective immigration laws too as they and their families have managed to contribute positively to the UK for decades. They also subscribe to the view that one concession leads to another as far as the more hard/hardliner Muslims are concerned.
And again I will leave you with the key fact about Korea's political parties - they all function as anti immigration parties. There is no need for separate Korean anti immigration parties. Foreign brides and their children are tolerated and becoming more acceptable - true. But if the foreign brides were coming from Africa, the fact that the children would look nothing like Koreans in most cases or have a passing resemblance to their Korean parent would indeed make the situation very different. |
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Mariella713
Joined: 22 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 3:24 am Post subject: |
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How do you know that her friends left her because she was already drunk? The article is translated - it could've just meant that she wanted to stay for a while longer and her friends were tired or had to go to work the next day. I agree it's stupid to leave your female friend at a bar by herself but she could've said she was just going to have one more and then make her way back. Her friends - like most posters on here seem to think - may have thought she'd be fine heading back by herself because Korea is "safe"? Come on, how many places in the world are considered 'safe' today? Sure, it is safER than some places but it is not safe.
Either way, it's terrible what happened to her. Imagine if those guys had AIDS or something...and not only did they rape her, they then stole her money and valuables. They'll be let off lightly. I just hope the woman can move on somehow from this incident and be more cautious next time. How can you drink so irresponsibly by yourself anyway... |
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ESL Milk "Everyday
Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
In other words, "our culture is special, please try to understand."
Sound familiar? |
You're a machine... you MUST be a machine. No human could possibly tolerate what you put yourself through.
I have a question: Can organic matter also time travel in the post-apocalyptic future from which you came? |
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