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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| riverboy wrote: |
One of my boys is circumcised due to a condition called hypospasdmia (something like that) The other isn't. I woiuld have gotten the second boys done if the doctor didn't discourage it. No biggie though.
I wonder how he'll feel later on when his older brother and father are both cut and he isn't.... |
No one is saying that circumcision should not be done when medically indicated, and hypospadias is an indication, at least in its less severe forms.
I predict when your son is older that he will feel forever grateful to you for following your doctor's advice, as well as feeling increased sexual pleasure throughout his lifetime.
You did the right thing. |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Oh good grief, what are there legions of men out there that feel they were "mutilated"? |
As someone who was circumsized himself, I don't feel victimized or mutilated, but I certainly support the idea that permanent, non-medically necessary body alterations should wait until one is 18 and can consent as an adult. |
Steelrails, you haven't answered as to whether you are intact or have been mutilated. I was mutilated as an infant and do feel victimized for it. I am considering suing the pediatrician who did it and/or having foreskin reconstruction, but one drawback is that it cannot replicate the extremely sensitive "ridged band" of nerve endings in the prepuce that serve to greatly heighten sexual sensation.
So you don't feel like victims? Well, I have been told by people who have masturbated (of course, I myself have never done it ) that one's thumb and forefinger go exactly where the foreskin is supposed to be! So you only get a three-finger hand job instead of the full five-finger version, a 40% loss.
Sex may still feel good, but how do you know it would not feel even better? |
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ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011 Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 4:15 am Post subject: |
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| Abe Scrap wrote: |
| I was mutilated as an infant and do feel victimized for it. I am considering suing the pediatrician who did it |
Oh puh-leeaase.
There are people with far,far worse things happen to them.. that manage to carry on as best they can.
Not everything is somebody's fault. Maybe your parents had your best interests at heart.
Besides, its them that you'd have to sue, as they made the decision. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:19 am Post subject: |
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Good grief you never even knew anything had happened until that first time in the shower with someone different.
So you lose sensation, but guess what, you don't get the foreskin pain. It's a tradeoff.
It's not the same as women who have outright removal.
And as for me, I am uncut and let me tell you that pain you sometimes get from a long night is no cup of tea either and has had me wishing something could have been done as a child or wondering if there could be a painless way now.
But I won't hold it against my parents or the doctor. |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:00 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Good grief you never even knew anything had happened until that first time in the shower with someone different.
So you lose sensation, but guess what, you don't get the foreskin pain. It's a tradeoff.
It's not the same as women who have outright removal.
And as for me, I am uncut and let me tell you that pain you sometimes get from a long night is no cup of tea either and has had me wishing something could have been done as a child or wondering if there could be a painless way now.
But I won't hold it against my parents or the doctor. |
What pain are you talking about? If you have dyspareunia treatable by circumcision, then by all means go ahead and voluntarily choose it now at this point in your life, altho I must admit I never heard of such a thing. |
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Underwaterbob

Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Location: In Cognito
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Science Fiction? |
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Konglishman

Joined: 14 Sep 2007 Location: Nanjing
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| In fact, in Christianity, there is no religious compulsion ordering circumcision. I understand that many if not most Europeans never undergo the procedure. The original reason that circumcision got instituted in America is because a doctor was advocating it as a way to reduce the likelihood of masturbation. Strange as it sounds, I am not kidding. |
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whitestboyalive
Joined: 09 Dec 2010
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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OK, here's my argument against steelrails and others here in favor of circumcision.
- Perceptual difference: The Sex & The City argument is invalid, because that is from a purely North American perspective. Go to Europe and ask a European girl what she thinks of circumcised manhood: to her it looks strange and alien, because she is accustomed to seeing the natural, uncut, unaltered manhood. Also, having been with a Euro girl for many years, they get pleasure out of knowing we get more pleasure too. So, it's all about what you grow up with and consider a norm, not what inherently looks normal. It's all about what we're raised with seeing in the media. So, in this way, North American's views are totally distorted.
I will tell you, as an uncut male and very thankful about it, I've never ran into a problem with a North American girl thinking it looked "alien" as the manhood looks the same whilst erect anyhow (no difference whatsoever in appearance). It only looks different in the flaccid state. Besides, women are not even that turned on (visually) by manhood... their minds work much differently than males, and if you didn't know that, start reading up about women and what actually turns them on! You may be surprised that it has little to do with what is between your legs! So, really, let's kill the 'appearance' argument. It has no validity whatsoever.
- Health benefit argument is invalid: Sometimes it is beneficial to cut out someone kidney, or tonsils, or apendix, if something is wrong with it or it threatens your health or your life. But we only do so when there is a real need. If there is no real medical need to circumcise, then why do it?
- Studies argument: Studies on this are so varied, and if there is a slight difference, it may just be due to the sample taken randomly being higher in one study than the other. There are so many things that could have affected the person's health (such as sexuality, number of partners, living conditions, socio-economic status, access to clean water, soap, etc.) The reason the results are so inconclusive points to the fact that there is no real benefit to circumcision. If there were some giant smoking gun, then we would obviously be circumcising right, left, and center! But we aren't. And us uncut guys are doing just fine down there.
- Personally I think that those who are already circumcised, a small portion perhaps, don't know what they are missing out on so they cannot imagine the use of the foreskin. They never had foreskin, so they don't know how good it is to have.
Or they may feel they are missing out, and since they are missing out, everyone else should miss out too. I should say here that I know not all cut men feel that way, just the ones wishing the same harm done on others that is done to them (a totally normal psychological response). I would say that I feel very sorry for those who were circumcised without their approval, without being educated about it. For you men out there who are "cut" I think you should do something to stop this barbarity. I say take a stance, don't cut your boys manhood, and support the ban.
For the religious types, there's nothing I can say really. I guess if that is your belief, unfortunately with the political-correctness of accepting religion these days, parents will do to their kids what they want. But probably in the future, this will be seen as a human rights abuse. |
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Underwaterbob

Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Location: In Cognito
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| whitestboyalive wrote: |
| (no difference whatsoever in appearance). It only looks different in the flaccid state. |
Uhh... No. Not that I have a problem with the gist of your post. |
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Abe Scrap
Joined: 01 May 2011
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2011 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ I believe what he is referring to is that in the erect states, both cut and uncut penes feature prominent protrusion of the glans, while in the flaccid states, the cut phallus still has its glans protruding while the uncut one looks like a worm in a turtleneck. |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Location: Incheon
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 5:08 am Post subject: |
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I predict when your son is older that he will feel forever grateful to you for following your doctor's advice, as well as feeling increased sexual pleasure throughout his lifetime.
You did the right thing. |
How do you know? Maybe he will resent me for not not being cut like his dad and older brother.
I don't understand the whole pleasure thing. Perhaps I don't know what I'm missing, but I still enjoy sex. A great deal as matter of fact.
I can think o two good reasons for circumcision. The first is the obvious decrease in risk of obtaining AIDS latter on in life. If my sons are anything like I was pre marriage, then there is a good chance they will be "runnin around" so to speak. The data at this point is pretty conclusive.
The other reason, is my two year old pee hole. When I take him to pee, hold it and try to poin it, I have a far less accurate aim than I did with my older boy. It sprays all over me and the gneral area, gets on his clothes and generally annoys me. I really don't like pee on my hands and looking at my son covered in his own urine.
As for my doctor, he did not reccommend that I not do it, he is Korean. He suggested I wait untill my boy was nine or ten. A little too harsh for me. Now, it's up to him. Wish I could've had it done when he was born. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| riverboy wrote: |
How do you know? Maybe he will resent me for not not being cut like his dad and older brother.
I don't understand the whole pleasure thing. Perhaps I don't know what I'm missing, but I still enjoy sex. A great deal as matter of fact.
I can think o two good reasons for circumcision. The first is the obvious decrease in risk of obtaining AIDS latter on in life. If my sons are anything like I was pre marriage, then there is a good chance they will be "runnin around" so to speak. The data at this point is pretty conclusive. |
I'm getting lost here. I'm under the impression that if someone wants to be circumcised, they can be. Why would someone resent you for that?
As to the AIDS point... even if he lived under this law in SF, he'd still have the choice to get cut at 18. Hopefully he could keep the unprotected sex to a minimum until then...
If you're circumcised and want the same for your children, there's no good reason it can't wait until they are 18 and can decide for themselves. The hilarity of people defending forcible circumcision is that there's little chance that they would opt for it if it hadn't been done before they were 18, and yet it's a good idea for infants who don't have a choice in the matter. It's the most blatant hypocrisy I've witnessed on Dave's. |
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Captain Corea

Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Good grief you never even knew anything had happened until that first time in the shower with someone different.
So you lose sensation, but guess what, you don't get the foreskin pain. It's a tradeoff.
It's not the same as women who have outright removal.
And as for me, I am uncut and let me tell you that pain you sometimes get from a long night is no cup of tea either and has had me wishing something could have been done as a child or wondering if there could be a painless way now.
But I won't hold it against my parents or the doctor. |
Um... What pain are you talking about? |
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whitestboyalive
Joined: 09 Dec 2010
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| riverboy wrote: |
I can think o two good reasons for circumcision. The first is the obvious decrease in risk of obtaining AIDS latter on in life. |
Obvious? I think it's more obvious to avoid sex with people who have AIDS! In Europe, almost no-one circumcises unless they�re Muslim or Jewish, and they have significantly lower rates of almost all STI�s including HIV.
Also, realize that the research is highly questionable when it comes to "proving" that people with foreskin have a higher chance of contracting AIDS. There are so many things you cannot control, and usually, science requires controls. Just look at these studies, constantly contradicting each other. Many studies claiming it prevented aids came out from 2000-2006 but after skeptics took a look at the lack of control, lack of proper methodology, and poor practice, poor standards of science research, a slew of articles debunking the "studies" came out soon after.
Trust me, Europeans would look at North Americans like we look at Koreans for believing in fan death. It seems like circumcision is a pseudo-science too.
Circumcision pseudo-science (2009)
http://hivskeptic.wordpress.com/2009/09/02/circumcision-pseudo-science/
Male Circumcision Overstated As Prevention Tool Against AIDS, According To Study
ScienceDaily (June 21, 2007)
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/06/070620085239.htm
Study: Circumcision to lower HIV risk inconclusive in gay men
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/aroundtheworld/2008/10/study-circumcision-to-lower-hiv-risk-inconclusive-in-gay-men/ |
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riverboy
Joined: 03 Jun 2003 Location: Incheon
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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I'm getting lost here. I'm under the impression that if someone wants to be circumcised, they can be. Why would someone resent you for that?
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In my earlier post I pointed out than one son is cut, the other is not. Perhaps the baby will feel alienated. Perhaps he won't.
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| Obvious? I think it's more obvious to avoid sex with people who have AIDS! |
I'll remember to tell my boys to bring an instant HIV blood test kit out with them when they are in college and some hot drunken college girl offers them a night of unprotected sex! Lord knows I didn't have the willpower and common sense to turn it down at that age.
Of course you are forgetting the other, more important reason of getting toddler urine all over me whenever I take my son to pee.
Personally, I don't see th practice as that terrible folks. I can think of about a thousand other things in life that affected me a more negative way in life that I would have prevented if I had a time machine and could go back and change things. |
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