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southernman
Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Location: On the mainland again
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 Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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Why is Korean public perception perceived as being the number one category. Anyway, I'd speculate that how much money you actually earned would be nore important to many. I know it is the number 1 factor to me.
So, therefore I'd put those on the F visas at the top of the list because of their potential earning npower.
Then maybe the top paying Uni jobs, maybe only 5-10% of them. That pay you extra money for teaching extra classes.
Then I'd rate a PS school job in a small city or the boonies as next. Especially if you pay key money. For a level 1+ teacher that's over 3 Million a month, or it is im my province and many others I've heard about. You can also get extra afterschool classes, that pay between 20-50 000 won an hour. That's not bad on an E2 visa.
After that, it's pretty much situation by situation in regards to the pay.
From my experience many jobs that have good titles, actually don't pay the highest wages but rather are more vanity based. Give me the money any day of the week |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:39 am Post subject: |
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| southernman wrote: |
| From my experience many jobs that have good titles, actually don't pay the highest wages but rather are more vanity based. Give me the money any day of the week |
vanity based is the wrong word.
Many jobs as prestigous institutions will give the employee an excellent resume, stable employment, better networking and better chance at getting good jobs in the future.
You are only thinking about $ in terms of the next few months. Many of us think in terms of 10 15 years ahead and a job at a prestigous school might have a low pay off in the near term and a higher one in the middle to long term. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:40 am Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
What's with people always ranking cities higher than boonies? They are ranked at the same level and you're doing the same job. |
Not true.
And...
Where you work is very important to Koreans. Hagwon and PS jobs...pretty much a dead heat there. Corporate/university positions however, definitely have some 'wow' factor.
Koreans place much value in where one works, just as where they went to school, where they live, etc. Superficial for sure, but very real as well. |
I beg to differ, at least for Koreans. When two Korean PS teachers meet each other, they don't think any less of them if they work outside of Seoul. Heck, half the teachers in Seoul are probably from the boonies anyways. Granted, they may think less of someone working for some 2-year college in the boonies vs some major university, but PS schools are pretty much standard across the board, for Korean teachers. As for FT's, well FT's are always 'special'. |
We aren't on the same page. I am discussing Korean perceptions of NETs (why do I - and I do - hate that acronym?) regarding job status.
I worked in the PS elementary system for many years and my wife has...well...much insight into the system. Sorry, I don't want to share her position here.
If you live in Gangnam, rent or own, where your kids go to school, their performance, drive a Beamer, all that blingy crap, plus, and perhaps most affective, if one went to the same school as the principal or senior administrators (a BIG factor in teacher re-distribution every 5 years: principals are clearly and consistently favoring those who graduated from their Alma Mater. In addition, teachers actively try to get into a school in which the principal or vice principal are alumni.)
These things seriously matter man, and on so many levels. |
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Ramen
Joined: 15 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:50 am Post subject: |
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multi-citizensip trumps f series visa now.  |
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southernman
Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Location: On the mainland again
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| southernman wrote: |
| From my experience many jobs that have good titles, actually don't pay the highest wages but rather are more vanity based. Give me the money any day of the week |
vanity based is the wrong word.
Many jobs as prestigous institutions will give the employee an excellent resume, stable employment, better networking and better chance at getting good jobs in the future.
You are only thinking about $ in terms of the next few months. Many of us think in terms of 10 15 years ahead and a job at a prestigous school might have a low pay off in the near term and a higher one in the middle to long term. |
Yeah, fair call but only if you are here for the long haul. Indeed, if I was looking into staying here 10-15 years I can understand your point of view. Although I'm thinking more in the range of two more years in my case, not a few months.
I know F Visa holders who've both been here 10+ years, have children and they're doing exactley the same as me. It's all different strokes for different folks. They're just into making as much money as they can for their families, both are doing a huge number of extra classes, though.
However, Korea has only been a stepping stone for me and its taken me 4 years so far. Two more years and I'll have enough money to own a modest business on a nice beach, somewhere in the Philippines. Thats me happy, Uni lecturers on their vacation will always be welcome  |
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jdog2050
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
By Koreans who don't know any better, probably. I wouldn't take that to heart too much if you're a hogwon teacher, or feel justified in lording over hogwon teachers if you're not.
A hogwon teacher who sees the same classes of 12 level-tested students every day probably has more opportunity to make a difference for their students than a foreign teacher dealing with lecture halls of 40+ mixed ability students in a once-a-week compulsory English class in a public school or university freshman English program.
As a foreigner, you don't really fit into the Korean pecking order anyway, so why lose sleep over it? |
To be horribly honest, being a PS teacher just isn't that great at all. If you're at a GOOD hagwon, yeah, you're probably making much more of an impact than being a public school "teacher" with 19 classes full of students. |
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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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| Posted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| To be horribly honest, being a PS teacher just isn't that great at all. If you're at a GOOD hagwon, yeah, you're probably making much more of an impact than being a public school "teacher" with 19 classes full of students. |
This is only the case if you are concerned with 'making an impact.'
To be horribly honest, most people teaching in Korea aren't here because of the supposed charms of the culture or the joys of teaching. They are here for the money.
IF you are one of those people, then PS is perfectly fine. You come in, you play nicely with your co-teachers, you are a show-pony when the time comes, you help the students who want to be and can be helped, you go through the highly-structured motions for the rest of them, you go home.
They're happy, you're happy. What's to stress about? Nothing, as long as you set aside this foolishness about 'impact.' After 1 or 2 years you go home, you never take your native country, and any work not involving language instruction, for granted again.
This forum seems to assume that everyone else is doing foreign teaching because they like it and are COMMITTED. Many people couldn't care less about this work as a profession or a calling. 10-15 years ahead? In 10 years I will NOT be teaching in Korea. |
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whiteshoes
Joined: 14 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Well I'm on my third contract in three years, I started at a hagwon and then went to a public school and now I'm at a uni. I can tell you that most people treated me the same if I was at the hagwon or public school. People would understand that I got a bit better vacation at the public school, but they never seemed too impressed either way.
Now that I work at a university, this has changed quite a bit. For one, Korean public school teachers often tell me that I'm of a higher position than they are. Also, I never say I'm a professor (that's a debate we've seen often enough) but I do say that I teach at a university. This, along with the fact that my business card describes me as "교수" and not "강사" (which is how my contract refers to my job title) has led to people treating me differently.
Just yesterday some acquaintances I'd know from the time I came to Korea, referred to me in Korean as "whiteshoes 교수님" which was odd because I was never called "whiteshoes 선생님" by these people. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| jvalmer wrote: |
What's with people always ranking cities higher than boonies? They are ranked at the same level and you're doing the same job. |
Not true.
And...
Where you work is very important to Koreans. Hagwon and PS jobs...pretty much a dead heat there. Corporate/university positions however, definitely have some 'wow' factor.
Koreans place much value in where one works, just as where they went to school, where they live, etc. Superficial for sure, but very real as well. |
I beg to differ, at least for Koreans. When two Korean PS teachers meet each other, they don't think any less of them if they work outside of Seoul. Heck, half the teachers in Seoul are probably from the boonies anyways. Granted, they may think less of someone working for some 2-year college in the boonies vs some major university, but PS schools are pretty much standard across the board, for Korean teachers. As for FT's, well FT's are always 'special'. |
Actually it is harder to become a public teacher in Seoul. It is all based on competition for spots. When they take the teachers licence exam they must nominate a province for which they are applying. If they nominate a part of Seoul they are up against the best. Many students at my school say they might nominate another province, even no their own once just because they have more likelihood of being successful. Remember the number of people who pass the exam is set by government based on needs of that province - more competition, less chance of being successful.
Therefore, Korean teachers are WELL AWARE that Seoul teachers are a HIGHER LEVEL - at least on entry - than those of other provinces. It was harder to get their job. Accordingly they are given more respect in Korea. It is only logical. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| Therefore, Korean teachers are WELL AWARE that Seoul teachers are a HIGHER LEVEL - at least on entry - than those of other provinces. It was harder to get their job. Accordingly they are given more respect in Korea. It is only logical. |
The test is a relatively knew thing, maybe last 10 years. There are still more Seoul teachers that got into schools in Seoul based on connections than not (more than 10 years ago). It's all number, the chances of being hired in any major city is pretty much the same percentage wise (since most want to work in a major city). It's roughly 1/20 chance to get hired in any city. In fact, it probably is better, career wise, to work in a province. Education officials even encourage people to work in the boonies by offering more money and a better change of being promoted.
Also a lot of schools are private and those schools set their own criteria for newly hired teachers. Korean PS teachers are considered the same and Seoul teachers are not more respected.
Also note that the chosen supervisor positions at the national education offices are pretty much proportionally represented from all the regions. If Seoul teachers were really considered superior by Koreans, than Seoul teachers would take up a disproportionate number of those coveted spots. |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jvalmer wrote: |
| Most Koreans don't really care... |
That's a laugh.  Koreans care. A lot. That's why they can't stop asking every foreigner what their job is, right? That's why they prod you for personal information, then once they get what they want, they walk away! You're right, most Koreans don't really care! |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
| Quote: |
| To be horribly honest, being a PS teacher just isn't that great at all. If you're at a GOOD hagwon, yeah, you're probably making much more of an impact than being a public school "teacher" with 19 classes full of students. |
This is only the case if you are concerned with 'making an impact.'
To be horribly honest, most people teaching in Korea aren't here because of the supposed charms of the culture or the joys of teaching. They are here for the money.
IF you are one of those people, then PS is perfectly fine. You come in, you play nicely with your co-teachers, you are a show-pony when the time comes, you help the students who want to be and can be helped, you go through the highly-structured motions for the rest of them, you go home.
They're happy, you're happy. What's to stress about? Nothing, as long as you set aside this foolishness about 'impact.' After 1 or 2 years you go home, you never take your native country, and any work not involving language instruction, for granted again.
This forum seems to assume that everyone else is doing foreign teaching because they like it and are COMMITTED. Many people couldn't care less about this work as a profession or a calling. 10-15 years ahead? In 10 years I will NOT be teaching in Korea. |
Modernist. Yes. Exactly. Money. Happy face - totally fake. Lunch-ee time - no. Kimchi - no. On the subway - pojima. Kakao Talk - no. Returning to the US with my Caucasian wife? Yes. Bye bye!
Best line in Korean I've learned: "와! 아시아 사람!" I can't bring myself to point my fingers at them, but I know they hate it. Good. See you never in 3 months. |
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PastorYoon
Joined: 25 Jun 2010
Location: Sea of Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
| After 1 or 2 years you go home, you never take your native country, and any work not involving language instruction, for granted again. |
This.
Did I do that right? Just type the word 'this' under something that I agree with? I'm so witty and clever. Right, UrbanMyth? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| PastorYoon wrote: |
| Modernist wrote: |
| After 1 or 2 years you go home, you never take your native country, and any work not involving language instruction, for granted again. |
This.
Did I do that right? Just type the word 'this' under something that I agree with? I'm so witty and clever. Right, UrbanMyth? |
If you had just typed the word "this" and left it at that I might have been forced to agree.
But then you told us all how "witty and clever" you were. Now how does that old saying go again? You know the one where it says if you have to TELL people that you are all that...? |
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Malislamusrex
Joined: 01 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:50 am Post subject: |
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Here for the money...... that's funny.
| Modernist wrote: |
| Quote: |
| To be horribly honest, being a PS teacher just isn't that great at all. If you're at a GOOD hagwon, yeah, you're probably making much more of an impact than being a public school "teacher" with 19 classes full of students. |
This is only the case if you are concerned with 'making an impact.'
To be horribly honest, most people teaching in Korea aren't here because of the supposed charms of the culture or the joys of teaching. They are here for the money.
IF you are one of those people, then PS is perfectly fine. You come in, you play nicely with your co-teachers, you are a show-pony when the time comes, you help the students who want to be and can be helped, you go through the highly-structured motions for the rest of them, you go home.
They're happy, you're happy. What's to stress about? Nothing, as long as you set aside this foolishness about 'impact.' After 1 or 2 years you go home, you never take your native country, and any work not involving language instruction, for granted again.
This forum seems to assume that everyone else is doing foreign teaching because they like it and are COMMITTED. Many people couldn't care less about this work as a profession or a calling. 10-15 years ahead? In 10 years I will NOT be teaching in Korea. |
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