Korean Job Discussion Forums

Badmojo · Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:15 pm Post subject: You cannot be serious

Does anyone like John McEnroe? I'm too young for his prime, but I've seen clips, especially of his tantrums. One of his more famous ones was at the US Open, I think, when he absolutely goes off on the umpire, yelling - "You can - NOT Be Serious!" I liked it when I saw it, so whenever something just blows my mind, I think of Johnny Mac going off, "You Can-NOT be Serious!"

Yesterday was one of those days. I have six of my students - top-level, no less, coming to my class crying. I ask what's the matter? "Oh, Jim, today, math class, no good. Teacher, stick, 16 times. Amy, stick, 16 times, Angel, stick 14 times, Ginny, stick, 12 times...," and on the description went. I asked why and he said because they got low marks on their math tests. I'm not talking about misbehaviour. I'm talking about my students get hitting for doing poorly on some BS math test. Cue Johnny Mac. You Cannot be Serious!

I don't know whether I should start something or not. I feel like going to the math teacher and telling her two things:

1. When your students do poorly on a test, you should help them, not hurt them.

2. When you have many students who did poorly on a test, maybe you should look in the mirror and ask yourself how I could have done better as a teacher. What mistakes did I make when I was teaching the points, instead of going to the wood and laying it on the children.

I think about the day after, and it still disgusts me.

Hitting your own students because they did bad on a test. You cannot be serious.

phaedrus · Joined: 13 Nov 2003 Location: I'm comin' to get ya.

It is sickening. Good way to discourage true learning.

My former hagwon boss was also an English teacher and would conduct classes herself for older students. She would punish them for bad test scores this way.

What a hypocritical b*tch. She would do this, yet reprimand us for punishing kids by making them stand with their hands in the air or by making them write lines. (I should mention that these punishments were not for bad test scores. That should seldom or never be punished.)

Good riddance to her and her stinky business.

Skarp · Joined: 22 Aug 2003

Hitting weaker people is just wrong - no ifs no buts.

Some say it's Ok to punish in some situations or in some ways - but the human rights abuse is on teh same spectrum and so the only way to stop it is to stop all physical punishment.

I would expel disruptive students after a range of warnings and some counselling. All very time consuming and expensive but it works and hitting people to make them smarter is, I venture, stupid and ineffective.

I would be tempted to tell the f^kwit Korean Teacher that the next time any kid complains they've been hit I will come and smack him/her!

How is that for bad logic? Violence (and similar abuse of power) is the only thing that makes me want to resort to violence.

Skarp

dutchman · Joined: 23 Jan 2003 Location: My backyard

The Lemon · Joined: 11 Jan 2003

I've heard from students a situation that's even worse than being hit for them getting low grades. I've had students get hit because *the class* got generally low grades, even though those particular students actually did well. So here's a student who scored a 95 on the test and he's getting whacked because others didn't do as well. That's nuts.

This was a few years ago, up in Seoul. I said the student - half-jokingly - "that's hardly fair, you should have hit your teacher back".

Oops. I got in a bit of trouble for that. Rolling Eyes

rapier · Joined: 16 Feb 2003

You're too soft. i'm with the stick.
Not for a poor test result maybe. But a whole range of other, serious misdemeanours, yes.
It makes me sick that the parents are wasting money sending their kids to hagwons to learn English. Because, in many cases, there is no discipline to enforce learning.
Suck it up. Pain is the greatest teacher in life.

riley · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Location: where creditors can find me

There are better ways than corporal punishment. What is funny is that Koreans find what we do for punishment in our countries as being cruel. That is where you see the cultural difference

rok_the-boat · Joined: 24 Jan 2004

Part of the problem with UK Education is that there is no corporal punishment, in my opinion. We 'got it' when we were young and in 99% of cases it was well-deserved; there was only one bad case of a teacher I can persoanlly remember - of course, it was no doubt those bad ones that screwed it up. And did anyone see that garnage about not being able to call kids 'naughty' as it might affect their personality - and what about the anti sports faction amongst teachers - flower power IDIOTS! You can't be nice and fair all the time. Of course, in Korea it is way out of control.

rok_the-boat · Joined: 24 Jan 2004

Part of the problem with UK Education is that there is no corporal punishment, in my opinion. We 'got it' when we were young and in 99% of cases it was well-deserved; there was only one bad case of a teacher I can personally remember - of course, it was no doubt those bad ones that screwed it up. And did anyone see that UK garbage about not being able to call kids 'naughty' as it might affect their personality - and what about the anti sports faction amongst teachers - "competition will harm their psyche" Flower power IDIOTS! You can't be nice and fair all the time. Of course, in Korea it is way out of control.

rapier · Joined: 16 Feb 2003

Its insane nowadays...you can't lift a finger basically...and the kids can do absolutely anything to you. What about the poor teacher? it might affect my personality that i get dong chimmed, sworn at , prodded and things thrown at me, yet get told i am a child abuser if i tell a kid that they're naughty... The whole worlds gone nuts!!!!

Its as CLEAR AS DAY that corporal punishment is badly needed. we are operating in a kind of anarchic vacuum, where there are no boundaries or rules,- other than, keep the school fees rolling in, at all costs.

sadsac · Joined: 22 Dec 2003 Location: Gwangwang

They do tend to take it to the extreme here. Australian schools now, only the principal or a designated teacher can administer corporal punsihment. Being an old bugger, I can remember getting 6 of the best many times for being an unruly little b and well deserved I might add. It's not just schools, parents can't even chastise their children without fear of some form of outside intervention. I smacked my daughter's bum in a supermarket one morning because she was being obnoxious and then got into a blue with a bloke who said that it was reprehensible that I should strike a child. My kid, my rules, she understood that, this twit didn't. We have gone too far the other way and Koreans are too eager to slap a kid down, without any thought to the consequences. Is there a balance, somewhere, we just have to find it. Smile

riley · Joined: 08 Feb 2003 Location: where creditors can find me

Yeah, I agree that it can go too far towards total permissiveness these days. My reason for being against corporal punishment is because generally punishment is given at a time when the teacher isn't in a good mood. For me, that means it may be harder not to give too many whacks or whack a little too hard. Frankly, I worry about loss of control. If I don't use corporal punishment, I'm not going to injure the child.

matthewwoodford · Joined: 01 Oct 2003 Location: Location, location, location.

Punishment for bad test results seems wrong but corporal punishment for bad manners and disruptive behaviour is often needed. I look at the kids - and they are far from being bad kids and far from being the worst ones I've taught - and wonder how they can be so ignorant sometimes. But then the adults all seem to have turned out ok so it can't be that bad. Getting them to walk and sit and shut the door quietly/normally seems like a great idea - but then again is our job really to help train them to be good little worker bees and knock all the spirit out of them? I don't know what the answer is...