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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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cert43
Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| I tink if you're keen on learning one, then Japanese is the easiest..( |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| nate1983 wrote: |
| I studied by myself before I came (enough to pass TOPIK level 3 before going to Korea) |
Yours is an interesting story. How many years of study (in the U.S.?) did it take to be able to get a level 3 on TOPIK? |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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OP is trolling people.
It's impossible to judge the overall difficulty of languages at the beginner and intermediate levels; there are simply too many external factors to consider (native language, birth place, age, personality, even race...the list could go for pages).
I think that a comparison at the advanced level is how most studies assess the difficulty of these languages, thus making Chinese the hardest.
My comments are on the advanced level--i.e. near fluent level. At that level, you realize that Korean is easiest of them all. The "dialects" and slangs of Korea are more standardized (for lack of a better term) than any of the other three languages. I don't mean to belittle Korean. In fact, I think it's amazing and also believe that their overwhelming pressure on one another to pronounce, say, and write things "correctly" in almost robotic/ tag-team fashion has done a great job of keeping the language relatively consistent (in comparison to the other three proposed). I always giggle at how fast my Koreans will correct other Koreans whenever one happens to slip up mid-conversation. Although, I've seen this habit erupt into fist fights between Chinese-Koreans and Koreans in China. Koreans seem to jump on mistakes by non-natives whenever they visit and speak Korean to Korean-speakers in China. "랭면? oh you mean, 냉면!?" |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| If...you want to read newspapers, books, street signs and have complete fluency - the language is probably the hardest you can find, harder than Chinese or Japanese. |
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/languages/korean/index.html
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Korean conjugation is very complex, with every verb having more than 600 possible different endings depending on degree of politeness, age and seniority. Most learners concentrate one one standard textbook politeness form.
Korean adjectives are also conjugated, with more than 500 possible endings. |
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| nate1983 wrote: |
| I studied by myself before I came (enough to pass TOPIK level 3 before going to Korea) |
Yours is an interesting story. How many years of study (in the U.S.?) did it take to be able to get a level 3 on TOPIK? |
I started studying with some videos on youtube and the Integrated Korean series in July 2007, after meeting some Koreans while studying abroad in France that summer, one of who I'm still very close friends with. At the time we couldn't really communicate, and my French had gotten to the point where I thought it would be more worthwhile starting a new language, so I figured Korean would be cool to try. I studied pretty regularly for the rest of the summer, then in grad school I audited a Korean class at our university...I found Korean and Korea pretty cool, and actually applied for a research Fulbright there (which I didn't get), but I ended up changing my career plans and headed to Seoul to teach at a university the next summer. I took the intermediate TOPIK in March/April 2008, and just barely eeked out level 3 (actually I scored in the 40's on all sections but vocab/grammar, where I got 70). My speaking was pretty bad, but I was probably spending 5-10 hours a week overall on my Korean, which for a period of about 8 months was enough to get me a decent base.
I don't think I have any particular language prowess, and I've seen people progress a lot more on less time. In my opinion, there are three important factors to succeeding in a language: access to resources (the IK series is the best I've ever seen for any language); personal motivation and perseverance, as sitting in the library studying grammar patterns is not usually the most "fun" way to spend an afternoon; and practice using the language. I actually used a language exchange website for chatting fairly regularly, which I probably spent an additional 5 hours or so a week on, so although I hadn't really spoken Korean upon my arrival, I was pretty used to actually having to respond and make sentences.
I think a lot of people don't take a "structured" approach to Korean - like they just learn phrases from their bf/gf and try to build from there. I have numerous friends who've done that pretty successfully with Romance languages, Thai, or Chinese, but I think Korean needs a more "scientific" approach for those of us who aren't language prodigies (or speakers of related languages such as Mongolian or Japanese, since I hear they often learn pretty well just by watching K-dramas). Also, the beginner level courses at universities are often boring, and IMO a lot more inefficient than self-study. While I think most of us would agree that the social aspect of a class is a lot more fun and there are definitely reasons to take classroom Korean, most classes have lots of down/wasted time, and I would almost invariably learn more sitting down in a coffee shop for two hours than spending four hours in an "intensive" course. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Location: Easy Street.
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Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| nate1983 wrote: |
| even if you're only going to be in the country a year, the effort needed to get a decent conversational level is well worth it. |
You are in for a big surprise...
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I'm still waiting to meet a western foreigner that speaks Korean....
Yeah a lot of westerners here don't care, but I think for a significant minority this attitude is borne out of necessity, the language is extremely difficult. |
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Actually I have met people who knew no Korean before coming here who attained intermediate level within a year. They did it by enrolling in classes and sticking with them continuously and taking every opportunity to practice. It's not easy but it can be done. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Location: Easy Street.
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Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If...you want to read newspapers, books, street signs and have complete fluency - the language is probably the hardest you can find, harder than Chinese or Japanese. |
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/languages/korean/index.html
| Quote: |
Korean conjugation is very complex, with every verb having more than 600 possible different endings depending on degree of politeness, age and seniority. Most learners concentrate one one standard textbook politeness form.
Korean adjectives are also conjugated, with more than 500 possible endings. |
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Politeness levels are really the least of your problems when learning Korean. The grammar can get complicated but it's also very regular and systematic - and you don't need to master anything like 600 different patterns before communicating.
In my experience the biggest problem with grammar is not grammatical form but in understanding what each pattern means and then learning to use it.
Vocabulary and phonology are much more challenging IMHO. So many words that sound so similar to the English ear! And few of them with a straightforward English translation! |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If...you want to read newspapers, books, street signs and have complete fluency - the language is probably the hardest you can find, harder than Chinese or Japanese. |
http://how-to-learn-any-language.com/e/languages/korean/index.html
| Quote: |
Korean conjugation is very complex, with every verb having more than 600 possible different endings depending on degree of politeness, age and seniority. Most learners concentrate one one standard textbook politeness form.
Korean adjectives are also conjugated, with more than 500 possible endings. |
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The above is just stupidly funny (if there's such a thing). Most Chinese street signs, books, and newspapers, use obscure characters and names from say 1000 or so years ago that even native Chinese people don't understand. Oh and if you do a permutation of the characters used in Chinese and consider that it only takes a combination of two to make a totally different word, then you'd be shocked at how meaningless memorizing 500 possible endings of adjectives (yes, of all the adjectives in the Korean language) sounds. You do the math.
Your trolling is getting funnier and funnier. I keep imagining a State Department drone trying desperately to get a pay raise by playing off Korean as a "difficult" language. Keep it up! It's hilarious.
Where are you quoting this garbage from, anyway? |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:51 am Post subject: |
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Ill drop this in.....i speak korean and japanese at a med or maybe hi intermediate level, never been tested, dont care to, but ive used and use both for business, and Ill say it...im struggling...I dont like to speak Korean, because I dont enjoy it, but I do enjoy Japanese. I have a feeling it maybe the people Im speaking to.
korean just seems to turn me into something different. maybe its all the confucian rules of ettiquette and such. not sure
im struggling with it for my sense of self. but i have made a great living by it, so... |
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littlelisa
Joined: 12 Jun 2007 Location: Seoul
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Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:26 am Post subject: |
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The answer depends on why you are learning them.
If you are just interested in learning two as a random number applied to random languages, then learn Korean and Japanese as they are the most closely related and you'll be able to use what you know in one to help you in the other.
If you are looking for usefulness, I say the language of where you currently live/are likely to be living in the most. If that is only one place and not two, I'd add Mandarin.
Cantonese is likely to be hardest of them all plus have the fewest resources for learning, and most native speakers will speak some Mandarin anyway.
Just learn whatever is around you and worry about the rest of them later.
From my perspective, Mandarin was easier to learn at the beginning, but is likely much harder when you get very proficient. Also, the writing system is harder to learn, but I bet you knew that already. The plus side, is knowing a lot of Chinese vocabulary plus the characters gives you a big help with Korean vocab if you know some of the hanja. No experience learning Japanese or Cantonese. |
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