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tesol traveler
Joined: 05 Jul 2011
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 Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:45 am Post subject: Options with an MA TESOL |
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I have an MA TESOL with a year's experience teaching EFL abroad in Europe and another year of teaching remedial writing to ESL students at the university level.
With those qualifications, what are my options in Korea? Is it likely that I could get a better than entry level position there? Or do I need to slog it out for a year in EPIK or something similar before looking for a University Position? |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Options with an MA TESOL |
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| tesol traveler wrote: |
I have an MA TESOL with a year's experience teaching EFL abroad in Europe and another year of teaching remedial writing to ESL students at the university level.
With those qualifications, what are my options in Korea? Is it likely that I could get a better than entry level position there? Or do I need to slog it out for a year in EPIK or something similar before looking for a University Position? |
IF you are in Korea (uni's typically don't hire from abroad) you can easily get a university position with your qualifications. Job ads usually begin in November with in-person interviews in December and job starts at the beginning of the academic year in March or April.
If you are out of the country you will need to get something to get you here and tide you over till the next academic year begins in March
OR
you can come over on your own dime, apply, interview, then head for a beach in Thailand or the Philippines to wait for the new term.
. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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You are minimally qualified for a good university position (yes, there are good and not so good university positions, and I am only not referring to 'top-tier' unis here either). In my experience, there are a wealth of relevant MAs out there and even more with experience in Korea. Still others have the coveted F visa (coveted from an employer's perspective) to go with their MA and experience. These folks are certainly higher in the chain.
Don't get me wrong; you are qualified, but my point is to be realistic. You have enough to get an interview, so put your best foot forward. Worst case, you get a job in a smaller, less-known university perhaps outside of Seoul for a year or two and then look inside Seoul.
Good luck. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| Still others have the coveted F visa (coveted from an employer's perspective) to go with their MA and experience. These folks are certainly higher in the chain. |
Let me fix this....
The F-visa people are higher in the chain in terms of side-jobs and such. NOT for university jobs. You may not have caught it earlier, but I made a post about how our university hasn't hired an F-Visa in several years now. In fact, I heard a rumor from our assistant that they were tossing resumes from applicants who were married.
I know of one top-tier university that has a branch outside of Seoul that specifically AVOIDS hiring F-Visas because they're more difficult to control. This is not to say F-Visas will have more difficulty at most schools, though. That "top-tier" university branch I mentioned is a real piece of crap to work for, and I doubt many F-Visas who aren't desperate for a univ. job would bother to apply.
Having an F-Visa doesn't mean you'll have a better chance at a university job. It's not the visa they're looking at when they consider your experience. It can, however, become a liability (because of age, family obligations, or what have you). |
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World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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Schools get greater federal subsidies for hiring an 'F' series visa?
http://www.asian-efl-journal.com/Thesis/Thesis-Thornton.pdf
^^^^^
an interesting read
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One other major limitation to this project derives from the S. Korean work visa policy. In its attempt to assist English education, the S. Korean government provides more subsidies to all higher learning institutes that employ native foreign speakers employed under the �F� series visa status and less if the native speaker is an E1 or E2 visa holder. This would not necessarily sound an alarm if it were not, however, for the sheer numbers of foreigners employed and the type of work visas they carry: potentially employers are not hiring instructors based upon their educational background but whether or not the instructor is married to a Korean national or not. Under this present �work visa� system in S. Korea then, the possibility of �educational visa gaps� between instructors and their respective college or university employers, can extend to problematic relationships between students and instructors.
There are several ways in which �relationships� can be confused but yet these are perhaps best juxtaposed with an ideal employee institute situation. For example, since college and universities are free to choose a curriculum that best suits their student�s needs, ideally the curriculum should focus on "learners, the subject matter, and society" (Gunter, Estes & Schwab, 2003). If a college or university attempts such an approach, this would also entail curriculum designers to gather information on the needs of the students, the societal purpose of the learning institution, and the subject matter" prior to its assessment (Gunter, Estes & Schwab, 2003). Ultimately, the curriculum designers would: (i) set goals and rationale for instruction, (ii) define the objectives, (iii) decide on means of assessment, and (iv), and construct a breakdown of units of study for the course (Gunter, Estes & Schwab, 2003). Under these assessment circumstances, ideal instructors would include holder�s higher education degrees in the field of second language (PhD, MA in TESOL/Applied Linguistics). These instructors would be given an E1 visa by immigration officials from the federal government in S. Korea. The situation would be considered �ideal� because the visa is consistently tied to the educational background of the instructor. Therefore, there would be a minimal problematic gap in the relationships between the institute, the instructor, and the students (i.e. the student is more than likely getting a quality education). In terms of belief, then, the influence of this type of institute, through its curriculum design, may match or lead the instructor toward standard theoretical beliefs in SLA theory. Hence a comparison of survey results between instructors and students may show a widest possible variance. However, it is possible of conceive of situations where control of the curriculum may be entirely handed over to the native instructor to decide since, for example, the institute may have a greater purpose than an English education in the community (Gunter, Estes & Schwab, 2003). In situations such as these, we might conclude that the onus of a program falls squarely on the native instructor or what he/she knows and believes about approach, design, and procedure of second language learning. Typically, we would assume the college or university would employ instructors with MAs in either TESOL or Applied Linguistics to insure that their student�s education is facilitated correctly (E1 visa holders) but this may not necessarily be the case.
Finally, it is also conceivable that some colleges and universities aspire to offer second language programs as a means of drawing more applicants to their schools but, at the same time, do very little about the quality of their second language education programs. Here, foreign language classes and their instructors may be used as financial means to an end. This is indicative of the visa status of the foreign instructor since it is more than likely that they have hired not for their qualifications to teach. Typically, the visa holder may have only a BA in a major in something other than second language learning (Business, History, or Sociology etc.) but because he/she is married to a Korean national, they provide the greatest possible subsidy to their college or university from the Federal government as F series visa holders. Thus, the beliefs of the instructors in these latter employment situations may possibly not show as wide a variance with the student responses of the ideal circumstances presented above simply because the instructor has more flexibility to choose his/her own curriculum( more often than above, the instructor will choose behaviorist methods to practice). **Note: in the above context all F series employment visa holders can have higher standing degrees (PhD, MA, or 4 year Honors degrees) or they may have a 3 year BA degree (minimum requirement). In other words, there is no direct correlation between an F series visa and an academic standard as there are with the E1 and E2 visa holders. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Wow..... That snippet gives zero indication as to what subsidies are given. What I read of it seems more opinion than fact backed by real statistics.
We do not even get a reference as to where we can fact-check. Flunk. Revise. I will have to pick through the whole article later to see if any verifiable refernces are available on this topic.
Is there something referenced earlier than your quote?
Wow, I should turn my eslcafe posts into published articles in online journals if this is par for the course! |
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curlyhoward
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| Still others have the coveted F visa (coveted from an employer's perspective) to go with their MA and experience. These folks are certainly higher in the chain. |
Let me fix this....
The F-visa people are higher in the chain in terms of side-jobs and such. NOT for university jobs. You may not have caught it earlier, but I made a post about how our university hasn't hired an F-Visa in several years now. In fact, I heard a rumor from our assistant that they were tossing resumes from applicants who were married.
I know of one top-tier university that has a branch outside of Seoul that specifically AVOIDS hiring F-Visas because they're more difficult to control. This is not to say F-Visas will have more difficulty at most schools, though. That "top-tier" university branch I mentioned is a real piece of crap to work for, and I doubt many F-Visas who aren't desperate for a univ. job would bother to apply.
Having an F-Visa doesn't mean you'll have a better chance at a university job. It's not the visa they're looking at when they consider your experience. It can, however, become a liability (because of age, family obligations, or what have you). |
I was recently offered a position at a university. The hiring powers at the university stated they preferred F-Visas. I suppose this university is an exception. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
Wow..... That arrticle gives zero indication as to what subsidies are given. Flunk. Revise. What I read of it seems more opinion than fact backed by real statistics.
We do not even get a reference as to where we can fact-check.
Is there something referenced earlier than your quote?
Wow, I should turn my eslcafe posts into published articles in online journals if this is par for the course! |
Irony lost?
All of this I say to you as well regarding your previous post. |
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Scott in Incheon
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Our university has hired numerous F-visa teachers in the last few years...as many if not more than E-2's. Some on our hiring committee prefer the F visa as it is simply easier to hire them than others.
No one at our school or any of the schools where I have friends working consider the F-visa to be a liability...in any sense of the word. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| curlyhoward wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| Still others have the coveted F visa (coveted from an employer's perspective) to go with their MA and experience. These folks are certainly higher in the chain. |
Let me fix this....
The F-visa people are higher in the chain in terms of side-jobs and such. NOT for university jobs. You may not have caught it earlier, but I made a post about how our university hasn't hired an F-Visa in several years now. In fact, I heard a rumor from our assistant that they were tossing resumes from applicants who were married.
I know of one top-tier university that has a branch outside of Seoul that specifically AVOIDS hiring F-Visas because they're more difficult to control. This is not to say F-Visas will have more difficulty at most schools, though. That "top-tier" university branch I mentioned is a real piece of crap to work for, and I doubt many F-Visas who aren't desperate for a univ. job would bother to apply.
Having an F-Visa doesn't mean you'll have a better chance at a university job. It's not the visa they're looking at when they consider your experience. It can, however, become a liability (because of age, family obligations, or what have you). |
I was recently offered a position at a university. The hiring powers at the university stated they preferred F-Visas. I suppose this university is an exception. |
No, it represents what I am sure is a majority. I have worked at 3 universities and have many friends and acquaintances working at at least 10 others still, and in all of those situations, an F visa is a bonus. It means a less paperwork and less cost for the university, therefore more attractive. Given two qualified applicants and all things being equal the F visa will prevail. Am I talking about quality of teaching? No. Am I saying it has stand-alone value? Yes.
Like it or not, it is true. It is a perk, something E2 visa holders hate to discuss, particularly the long-timers, who are nowhere near the 80 points or whatever to get the F visa through effort.
But, I, we, are way off-topic. |
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goat
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| curlyhoward wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| Still others have the coveted F visa (coveted from an employer's perspective) to go with their MA and experience. These folks are certainly higher in the chain. |
Let me fix this....
The F-visa people are higher in the chain in terms of side-jobs and such. NOT for university jobs. You may not have caught it earlier, but I made a post about how our university hasn't hired an F-Visa in several years now. In fact, I heard a rumor from our assistant that they were tossing resumes from applicants who were married.
I know of one top-tier university that has a branch outside of Seoul that specifically AVOIDS hiring F-Visas because they're more difficult to control. This is not to say F-Visas will have more difficulty at most schools, though. That "top-tier" university branch I mentioned is a real piece of crap to work for, and I doubt many F-Visas who aren't desperate for a univ. job would bother to apply.
Having an F-Visa doesn't mean you'll have a better chance at a university job. It's not the visa they're looking at when they consider your experience. It can, however, become a liability (because of age, family obligations, or what have you). |
I was recently offered a position at a university. The hiring powers at the university stated they preferred F-Visas. I suppose this university is an exception. |
The university that offered you the position is not the exception. Most universities will hire an F-Visa over an E-Visa. Having an F-Visa does mean you will have a better chance at a university job. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| ...they were tossing resumes from applicants who were married. |
You seem to tacitly support this practice. Well, it certainly makes you either quite happy, or quite upset; either way, you are passionate about this issue. I suspect the former and, well, what can you say to that? You seem to be either a Korean* or an insecure foreigner.
* No racial slur intended. Koreans routinely engage in all manner of crooked hiring practices. No secret there. Throwing an application in the trash based on a visa status (a factor that would have absolutely no bearing on the job and actually would save them money and time) is ludicrous. |
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curlyhoward
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| goat wrote: |
| curlyhoward wrote: |
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| Still others have the coveted F visa (coveted from an employer's perspective) to go with their MA and experience. These folks are certainly higher in the chain. |
Let me fix this....
The F-visa people are higher in the chain in terms of side-jobs and such. NOT for university jobs. You may not have caught it earlier, but I made a post about how our university hasn't hired an F-Visa in several years now. In fact, I heard a rumor from our assistant that they were tossing resumes from applicants who were married.
I know of one top-tier university that has a branch outside of Seoul that specifically AVOIDS hiring F-Visas because they're more difficult to control. This is not to say F-Visas will have more difficulty at most schools, though. That "top-tier" university branch I mentioned is a real piece of crap to work for, and I doubt many F-Visas who aren't desperate for a univ. job would bother to apply.
Having an F-Visa doesn't mean you'll have a better chance at a university job. It's not the visa they're looking at when they consider your experience. It can, however, become a liability (because of age, family obligations, or what have you). |
I was recently offered a position at a university. The hiring powers at the university stated they preferred F-Visas. I suppose this university is an exception. |
The university that offered you the position is not the exception. Most universities will hire an F-Visa over an E-Visa. Having an F-Visa does mean you will have a better chance at a university job. |
This would seem to be the logical choice. By the way, the ones offering me the position said that they considered the F-Visa as an asset because of having ties to Korea and usually long-term family obligations within Korea as well as being usually more adjusted to the cultural norms. |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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1. My earlier post was based on fact. Facts that I have experienced, as well as facts that were told to me by a former teacher who worked at the other university that would not hire F-2's. If you want a reference, I'll invite you to my university, where you can see our employee list, if you like. I'll also reveal the name of that other university so you can fact-check that.
I've been teaching in Korea for nearly a decade, and although I could buy the argument that some schools might prefer to hire F-Visa teachers, I can categorically state that this is NOT the norm for all, or even MOST universities (at least the ones that I know of). Now, if the government is giving more benefits to schools who hire F-Visa holders, which is what the author claims, then we need FACTS. What benefits? Money? New car for the president? Computers? We have no idea because the author doesn't tell us (and neither does the OP).
2. My post was not a thesis. It was a casual post on a message board. The article quoted by the gentleman who attended the University of South Queensland WAS a thesis, and SHOULD have facts backed-up with references. The unfortunate truth is that the professor/advisor working with this student appears to have missed it.
Simply because this Masters student appears to have written an opinion, put it in the middle of his 100+ page thesis, and published it on an ONLINE site does not make what he wrote any more true than my post here on Dave's.
Until we learn exactly what benefits he claims the government is giving schools for hiring F-2's, his argument is nothing more than a fart in the wind. I'd really like to know, because a "professor" or "lecturer" publishing this kind of thing without facts or can end up getting themselves in the news, fired, sued, etc. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| 1. My earlier post was based on fact. Fact that I had experienced |
This is called "hearsay", in the world.
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
| I've been teaching in Korea for nearly a decade, and although I could buy the argument that some schools might prefer to hire F-Visa teachers, I can categorically state that this is NOT the norm for all, or even MOST universities (at least the ones that I know of). |
So your sample is what...4 maybe 5 universities? Well, my sample - the one I never argued as fact - is at least 18 schools. The problem is you don't believe me and to that, who cares? It is a fact - by your own words - that I know more about more schools' hiring practices than you, but you insist that you are right? So much for your factual investing.
| Swampfox10mm wrote: |
2. My post was not a thesis. It was a casual post on a message board. The article quoted by the gentleman who attended the University of South Queensland WAS a thesis, and SHOULD have facts backed-up with references. The unfortunate truth is that the professor/advisor working with this student appears to have missed it.
Simply because this Masters student appears to have written an opinion, put it in the middle of his 100+ page thesis, and published it on an ONLINE site does not make what he wrote any more true than my post here on Dave's.
Until we learn exactly what benefits he claims the government is giving schools for hiring F-2's, his argument is nothing more than a fart in the wind. I'd really like to know, because a "professor" or "lecturer" publishing this kind of thing without facts or can end up getting someone fired, sued, etc. |
Holy deflections, strawman! |
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