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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| sirius black wrote: |
| Some of the posts form some on this site would have us believe their poverty are their own doing. |
Some people aren't very bright. While this limits their career options and increases the odds of them being unemployed, there are still jobs they can do.
Ambition is another big factor in gaining employment.
If you personally are worried about not being able to get a job, seek more education. It will make your life better.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Figure01-earnings_by_degree.gif |
Firstly your chart is from 2009, when the unemployment level was lower. Also I'm assuming most people here are in their 20's or so. People starting out are going to be making much lower than the median wage, as people making that median wage have been at their jobs for a decade or more, and are not at the entry level anymore. If you look at recent college graduates the unemployment levels are higher and the wages are lower. Those numbers, I assume, would be more relevant to this group, or at least myself. |
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brento1138
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Perhaps the difference between the historical depression and this one is that this one could be a permanent fixture. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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The numbers say less than 2 million have a degree and are out of work. There are also those with a college degree who are underemployed. By that I mean working at jobs that don't provide enough income for their needs or the needs of their family if they have one. I have a ton of friends in that category. The unemployment rate for everyone is higher than usual these days. I would even agree that even in high unemployment areas one can find pretty much any job. Those would mostly be minimum wage or thereabouts. However, for many its not a livable wage.
How easy is it nowadays for college degreed head of households to find a job that that takes care of their family? Or even the category of most of us here in Korea, 20 something, very little if any working experience. Many of us in Korea could live at home perhaps.
Also, with more people getting a degree, doesn't it dilute the power of a degree? That's asssuming some people have the aptitude for college. Perhaps its best if this country creates the proper climate for jobs that require skilled labor like plumbing, auto repair, construction, welding, etc.? I don't know the numbers but when the arab spring was happening there were reports that there were Egyptians with very advanced degrees driving a cab. If the jobs aren't there a degree doesn't mean much. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
The American middle class of the old days was not just an accident. Nor was it the natural outcome of Gilded Age economic policy.
It was the result of deliberate government policies designed to spread the wealth and access to the good life. We cannot return to exactly the same policies as before because the economy has changed drastically since then. We need an up-dated version of those policies that meet the needs of today.
Our biggest and best opportunity was in Jan. '09. We should have had a 'War on Wall Street' that destroyed this 'government is the problem' crap we've had to live with.
There is talk of a 'grand bargain' where everyone gets along. That is hooey. The 'grand bargains' of history have not been negotiated. They have been imposed by new governing coalitions who fought and won the fights for progressive legislation. |
I propose a 90% wealth tax on the morbidly obese and the monies donated to the starving.
You can't say fairer than that. |
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Sergio Stefanuto
Joined: 14 May 2009
Location: UK
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| Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: U.S. Poverty Rate, 1 in 6, at Highest Level in Years |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| World Traveler wrote: |
| Quote: |
According to the census figures, the median annual income for a male full-time, year-round worker in 2010 � $47,715 � was virtually unchanged from its level in 1973, when the level was $49,065, in 2010 dollars, said Sheldon H. Danziger, professor of public policy at the University of Michigan.
�That�s not about the poor and unemployed, that�s full time, year round,� Professor Danziger said. Particularly hard hit, he said, have been those who do not have college degrees. �The median, full-time male worker has made no progress on average.� |
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/14/us/14census.html |
You have to account for purchasing power |
So long as the gap is smaller, they'd rather the poor were poorer.
Leftists aren't offended by poverty - they're offended by wealth.
And why's that? Well, naked envy and self-interest, obviously, and also the fact that they are useless, talentless, parasitical half-wits who would be on the streets begging for food in the absence of state arrogation. But there's also oikophobia |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:37 am Post subject: Re: U.S. Poverty Rate, 1 in 6, at Highest Level in Years |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| But there's also oikophobia |
Just clicked on that link... then ended up watching like 5 of his videos in a row. Very interesting and well spoken. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| Sergio Stefanuto wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
The American middle class of the old days was not just an accident. Nor was it the natural outcome of Gilded Age economic policy.
It was the result of deliberate government policies designed to spread the wealth and access to the good life. We cannot return to exactly the same policies as before because the economy has changed drastically since then. We need an up-dated version of those policies that meet the needs of today.
Our biggest and best opportunity was in Jan. '09. We should have had a 'War on Wall Street' that destroyed this 'government is the problem' crap we've had to live with.
There is talk of a 'grand bargain' where everyone gets along. That is hooey. The 'grand bargains' of history have not been negotiated. They have been imposed by new governing coalitions who fought and won the fights for progressive legislation. |
I propose a 90% wealth tax on the morbidly obese and the monies donated to the starving.
You can't say fairer than that. |
Typical right wing focus on the outward rather than the real source of the problem.
Once upon a time, the woman who taught in the classroom next door to me had a daughter. Her (the daughter) said, "If they don't have a job, why don't they go out and get one?"
That would be ian deal solution if capitalism didn't fail every couple of decades. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
Once upon a time, the woman who taught in the classroom next door to me had a daughter. Her (the daughter) said, "If they don't have a job, why don't they go out and get one?"
That would be ian deal solution if capitalism didn't fail every couple of decades. |
Leave it to a brainwashed Leftist ask the wrong question (in this case by proxy). The real question is: "Why can't they find a job?"
The answer, of course, is that they can't find a job because government policy guarantees a high level of unemployment. It is built into the socialist system (minimum wage laws, public sector unions, regulation, taxation etc). In a proper free market system, unemployment would be negligible and everyone would have a purchasing power enabling them to live good lives (unlike now where it gets harder and harder each year due to government-caused inflation). |
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lithium
Joined: 18 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| Does anyone still believe that Obama is not deliberately cutting this country down to size? The US will never be the same again with four more years of this regime. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
| Some of the posts form some on this site would have us believe their poverty are their own doing. No one should be out of a job. They're just lazy. |
Elizabeth Warren on this issue.
She started from a position similar to the above - that failing to make it into the middle class is down to laziness, and irresponsibly going into debt. I believe the main points she arrived at after studying the data were that couples in America nowadays are in a precarious position where one piece of bad luck can wipe them out - particularly one person in a couple losing a job or an illness, either of which can lead to losing one's house and/or bankruptcy.
Those who do not aspire, who do not try to move into expensive areas for the sake of good schools for their children, do not try to train themselves for the better class of jobs, are doomed from the start and are, statistics show, dooming their children to a life in the underclass. Those who do aspire may make it but only after a long haul, only if they manage to avoid unemployment, underemployment, sickness, accidents, the need to support a relative with a problem, or any of the other large unforeseen expenses that life throws at you. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| lithium wrote: |
| Does anyone still believe that Obama is not deliberately cutting this country down to size? The US will never be the same again with four more years of this regime. |
It's not Obama as such. It's the ruling class. They've been consistently pursuing policies designed to cut the country down to size for at least 30 years, and this is just the latest phase.
Obama might even buck the trend a little if his latest proposals actually come to anything. Perhaps the popular outcry has actually had an effect on him, although there's been little reason to expect any real change from him so far.
The other issue is that any President seeking to reverse the trend of the past decades is swimming against the tide. Up to this point Obama's just been swimming with it. |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
It's not Obama as such. It's the ruling class. They've been consistently pursuing policies designed to cut the country down to size for at least 30 years, and this is just the latest phase. |
But since Obama is bought and paid for, he is just as much the problem. I voted for him and I'm profoundly disappointed at his lies about government transparency, the Patriot Act, and foreign wars.
But the real problem lies in the inevitable upward wealth transfer of our fiat currency. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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^ Agreed, although I don't think it's fiat currency per se, more a matter of when the money becomes debt (or is it the debt becomes money?) who ends up paying the debt?
This also helps explain why Americans have become so bitter, as someone asked on another thread. The screws have been tightening and no one likes to become worse off than they used to be. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| ^ Agreed, although I don't think it's fiat currency per se, more a matter of when the money becomes debt (or is it the debt becomes money?) who ends up paying the debt? |
This is the key. It's such a simple thing and yet so few people are even aware of it. Pretty well all the problems in the world today can be traced back to this simple slight of hand: banks creating money out of nothing and lending it out at interest (combined with governments "borrowing" an endless amount from the central bank and spending their way to inflation for the rest of us).
You mention the precarious state of people in the middle class these days. Ever increasing debt and inflation is to blame more than anything. It is absurd that we live in a world of such wealth, and are yet constantly on the verge of bankruptcy. This is above all else the fault of the monetary system we have imposed upon us. |
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tHEhERETIC
Joined: 12 Oct 2008
Location: SinJang, Hanam-si
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| Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="stilicho25"]Join the military and get the GI bill.[/quote]
43, female, and overweight. Joining the military was never an option for me. In order to afford tuition...I came here. It was just blind luck that Bush's "stimulus" and the generosity of friends allowed me the seed money to do so.
Now I wait here for the job market to lighten up enough to go back. |
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