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tortugaverde
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Location: Busan
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 Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:10 am Post subject: Runner Question |
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Quick details...
Small brand new school (less than 10 kids). They keep talking about how it will grow, but no interest yet.
8 teachers (crazy, I know)
Broken contract several times. Yes, I have asked about these things but really get no answer nor does the contract go back to the orriginal state.
Contract issues are money, and less of it for me. About 10 grand less.
Recent issue is that we have discovered that they have access to our bank account and have set up payments for a fee we must pay for our children to the school. With no permission from us.
We are working illegally. Although our work visa is in proceess. If we have an interview for our visa, I fear they will ask what the heck I have been doing in Korea for the past two months.
The school has plenty of money. Although one can only shell out so much when none is coming in, eventually I would guess they would call it quits. Although they keep purchasing crazy epensive items to decorate etc.
So, if I run... I will feel pretty bad. Other than the above they have been pretty good to me. They also seem to be nice people, but with all the horror stories I fear the worst. however, I can only be jerked around so much, you know?
My big question is, should I give any notice? Since I am not on a work visa... can they really do anything at all? Even if I give them notice (other than clear out my bank account, which I will have cleared out beforehand anyway)?
Does one really have to do a "midnight run"??
Thanks for your thoughts. |
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Skipperoo
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:15 am Post subject: |
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| You're not on a contract, a visa, or any kind of legal employment so you're not obligated to give notice. Whether you should or not is entirely up to how you feel about your boss/colleagues - but personally any school that is taking secret payments from my account (bit cloudy on this, why are YOU paying fees for your students?) deserves everything they get. |
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Mr Lee's Monkey
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:34 am Post subject: re running |
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| Are you saying that you've come to this job with children in tow, and that fees for your children are being taken from your pay by the school? |
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tortugaverde
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:48 am Post subject: Re: re running |
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| Mr Lee's Monkey wrote: |
| Are you saying that you've come to this job with children in tow, and that fees for your children are being taken from your pay by the school? |
Yes. We have worked several years internationally (in other locations) and have never had to pay a cent for our kids. We were told they would be free and this postion, now they have decided to charge for some things... and take it directly from our bank account. |
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Mr Lee's Monkey
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| OP, are the deductions for your kids school (tuition) related, or something else? |
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tortugaverde
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr Lee's Monkey wrote: |
| OP, are the deductions for your kids school (tuition) related, or something else? |
Tuition related. They decided that since there is little enrollement, they need money for staff students. Obviously, not in the orriginal agreement. |
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Mr Lee's Monkey
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| There are a few private elementary schools and international schools in Busan - all of them charge at least partial tuition fees for teacher's kids. Something to consider if it's the biggest reason you want to run. Running when you've brought a family with you sounds like such a tough way to work through your situation. If your school has deep pockets and your housing is decent, it may be worth it to take your time and look for an alternative to "running", like a transfer. That's assuming your ARC and visa are currently being processed. Sincere best wishes to you and your family. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Recent issue is that we have discovered that they have access to our bank account and have set up payments for a fee we must pay for our children to the school. With no permission from us. |
You have a child? You have 2? Not their problem. It's your problem. Morally speaking you are neglecting your responsibilities. Legally, you don't have a contract or visa connected with the school to enforce anything.
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| Although our work visa is in proceess. If we have an interview for our visa, I fear they will ask what the heck I have been doing in Korea for the past two months. |
So, you are on a tourist visa? If not, you will need to get a letter of release from your previous employer. If you are on a tourist visa, where are your documents? In your hand? In the hagwon's hand (the one you want to leave)? With immigration?
The new school is going to need them and I suggest you and your partner not go to the same school. The new SCHOOLS are going to need your documents. This way if you pick the wrong school again, you both aren't screwed, and your children have a place to stay. One parent can leave and re-enter to find another school.
| Quote: |
| should I give any notice? |
Assuming you are on a tourist visa, where are you going to go to when the school kicks you out on the street? Where are your children going to stay? You complain about getting 10,000 less ($9), so I figure you aren't working with much money. Secure a job first, and then make a deal. For example, if you get a job that wants you to start in 4 weeks, you tell the school and they will ask you to work until that point. You tell them you can't, you need to move out, etc...
Negotiate a move out date. Then, move out before that date. Move all your stuff. You need to also plan this in relationship to your pay day. In my case I got paid and the school told me they needed 2 weeks to find a replacement. I told them I would just walk away after 2 weeks, no pay needed (the other option would be to have to give 2 months notice and I already secured another position). However, I stayed 4 weeks. Normally, you should try to get 2 weeks pay, but I knew they wouldn't. They already screwed over 4 other teachers and all 10 Korean teachers when they changed ownership. They said those 14 teachers should get paid from the previous owner, not them. I was hired by the new owner. So, I just did the least amount of work I could. I secured another school, moved out before the agreed move date, and went on with my life.
Secure a job for yourself and your children. Make sure they have a home. |
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tortugaverde
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Recent issue is that we have discovered that they have access to our bank account and have set up payments for a fee we must pay for our children to the school. With no permission from us. |
You have a child? You have 2? Not their problem. It's your problem. Morally speaking you are neglecting your responsibilities. Legally, you don't have a contract or visa connected with the school to enforce anything.
| Quote: |
| Although our work visa is in proceess. If we have an interview for our visa, I fear they will ask what the heck I have been doing in Korea for the past two months. |
So, you are on a tourist visa? If not, you will need to get a letter of release from your previous employer. If you are on a tourist visa, where are your documents? In your hand? In the hagwon's hand (the one you want to leave)? With immigration?
The new school is going to need them and I suggest you and your partner not go to the same school. The new SCHOOLS are going to need your documents. This way if you pick the wrong school again, you both aren't screwed, and your children have a place to stay. One parent can leave and re-enter to find another school.
| Quote: |
| should I give any notice? |
Assuming you are on a tourist visa, where are you going to go to when the school kicks you out on the street? Where are your children going to stay? You complain about getting 10,000 less ($9), so I figure you aren't working with much money. Secure a job first, and then make a deal. For example, if you get a job that wants you to start in 4 weeks, you tell the school and they will ask you to work until that point. You tell them you can't, you need to move out, etc...
Negotiate a move out date. Then, move out before that date. Move all your stuff. You need to also plan this in relationship to your pay day. In my case I got paid and the school told me they needed 2 weeks to find a replacement. I told them I would just walk away after 2 weeks, no pay needed (the other option would be to have to give 2 months notice and I already secured another position). However, I stayed 4 weeks. Normally, you should try to get 2 weeks pay, but I knew they wouldn't. They already screwed over 4 other teachers and all 10 Korean teachers when they changed ownership. They said those 14 teachers should get paid from the previous owner, not them. I was hired by the new owner. So, I just did the least amount of work I could. I secured another school, moved out before the agreed move date, and went on with my life.
Secure a job for yourself and your children. Make sure they have a home. |
You made quite a few assumptions here. Obviously I can't post my entire life story so I guess you just used what you had but, wow.
My husband and I work at the same school. We are not moving to any other school in Korea. We make (together) 75,000 usd per year at our current job although with the recent school deductions that figure comes out to about 65,000 usd. I feel like that is pretty decent, not sure what the going rate in Korea is though, I have not been here long.
Clearly our children are our problem. The fee however, is not. As I said, we have been teaching abroad for several years. All international schools have waivers for dependent children, take a look at any job offer abroad and you will find that to be true. Hogwans probably not, but we are not working at a Hogwan. This is a private school that agreed to waive fees, then they changed their mind because enrollment is low and now they need the money from teacher parents. It would be like promising airfare to a teacher and then when they ask for reinbursement saying "oh, sorry, we decided we can't afford that anymore."
Our visa is in process with the government. Yes we are working illegaly right now. Korea is the first country I have been in where teachers freak out when they hear other teachers are doing this. Everywhere else I have been it is a pretty common thing to do prior to getting your visa.
My kids have a home, clothes, food and far too many toys. We have plenty of extra cash to check out of Korea if we need to and a house in the US. It is really not that big of a deal. I posted my question to get a feel if these were legit things the school is doing or not. |
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cincynate
Joined: 07 Jul 2009
Location: Jeju-do, South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Why does your employer have access to YOUR bank account? Why did you give them access? Move all your money out of that account and open a new one. Then tell your employer you want your paychecks deposited into the new account. Under no circumstances anywhere in the world should an employer have access to an employee's bank account. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Clearly our children are our problem. The fee however, is not. |
If you can arrange that, that is your choice. I would try too. However, if you can't, don't be surprised if you have to pay a fee.
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| It would be like promising airfare to a teacher and then when they ask for reinbursement saying "oh, sorry, we decided we can't afford that anymore." |
That's why people do it legally and have it written in the contract so they can enforce it later. You have stated nothing which indicates you can enforce this now.
So, to recap so far:
1. You want childcare, but you don't want to pay the fees.
2. You want to reap the benefits of a contract job, but you don't want to sign a contract. You prefer to work illegally.
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| Our visa is in process with the government. |
Then you have a contract you can enforce later. Don't like it that you can't enforce it now? Learn to get the visa/s sorted before your next move. Personally, I think you are simply too greedy of a person, you played your cards the best you could. Now, it is time to accept the reality that they aren't going to pay you, maybe you can enforce the contract after you get your visa. If what you want is written in there, then you have a chance. Good luck.
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| I posted my question to get a feel if these were legit things the school is doing or not. |
1. You want childcare, but you don't want to pay the fees.
2. You want to reap the benefits of a contract job, but you don't want to sign a contract. You prefer to work illegally.
3. Now you want to police Korean employers so they do things legitimately.
Face it, you came to Korea on a gamble because you had what looks like a very good offer, and for 2 people. Well done. The gamble isn't paying off as much as you would like. Live with it.
"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away and know when to run."
Right now, you should "hold'em". Fold them after you get your visa, and if they don't do what you say, make the choice later to run.
Again, you did really well picking up some pocket change until now. Wait for another winning streak. |
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tortugaverde
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Clearly our children are our problem. The fee however, is not. |
If you can arrange that, that is your choice. I would try too. However, if you can't, don't be surprised if you have to pay a fee.
| Quote: |
| It would be like promising airfare to a teacher and then when they ask for reinbursement saying "oh, sorry, we decided we can't afford that anymore." |
That's why people do it legally and have it written in the contract so they can enforce it later. You have stated nothing which indicates you can enforce this now.
So, to recap so far:
1. You want childcare, but you don't want to pay the fees.
2. You want to reap the benefits of a contract job, but you don't want to sign a contract. You prefer to work illegally.
| Quote: |
| Our visa is in process with the government. |
Then you have a contract you can enforce later. Don't like it that you can't enforce it now? Learn to get the visa/s sorted before your next move. Personally, I think you are simply too greedy of a person, you played your cards the best you could. Now, it is time to accept the reality that they aren't going to pay you, maybe you can enforce the contract after you get your visa. If what you want is written in there, then you have a chance. Good luck.
| Quote: |
| I posted my question to get a feel if these were legit things the school is doing or not. |
1. You want childcare, but you don't want to pay the fees.
2. You want to reap the benefits of a contract job, but you don't want to sign a contract. You prefer to work illegally.
3. Now you want to police Korean employers so they do things legitimately.
Face it, you came to Korea on a gamble because you had what looks like a very good offer, and for 2 people. Well done. The gamble isn't paying off as much as you would like. Live with it.
"You got to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away and know when to run."
Right now, you should "hold'em". Fold them after you get your visa, and if they don't do what you say, make the choice later to run.
Again, you did really well picking up some pocket change until now. Wait for another winning streak. |
Hmm, I don't think you read well. Thanks for your thoughts regardless. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| We are working illegally. |
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| If we have an interview for our visa, I fear they will ask what the heck I have been doing in Korea for the past two months. |
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| Hmm, I don't think you read well. Thanks for your thoughts regardless. |
You are right, I didn't notice something until now. Only one of you appears to be working there. Why are you worried they will ask what you have been doing and not also your spouse (I am assuming you two are married)?
If you meant, "we have been doing", then maybe you don't write so well. |
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tortugaverde
Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Location: Busan
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
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| We are working illegally. |
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| If we have an interview for our visa, I fear they will ask what the heck I have been doing in Korea for the past two months. |
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| Hmm, I don't think you read well. Thanks for your thoughts regardless. |
You are right, I didn't notice something until now. Only one of you appears to be working there. Why are you worried they will ask what you have been doing and not also your spouse (I am assuming you two are married)?
If you meant, "we have been doing", then maybe you don't write so well. |
Oh man, you caught me! I muddled my subject pronouns. WE both work at the same school. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Good luck in the interviews, both of you. |
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