|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
|
 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| austrian123 wrote: |
.
The reason why the ratio of male to female english teacher is much higher in favour of males is because many male english teachers come to Korea to have sex with Korean women. |
Maybe Korean female employers like to hire Western men for the same reason. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
AlastairKirby
Joined: 29 Aug 2011
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| shifty wrote: |
| AlastairKirby wrote: |
| Life is too short to be arguing with people on the internet. |
Thanks for this nugget, now I know. Can't help thinking I should avoid your fine example.
| Quote: |
| I conflated the OP as someone having a pop at people who can't find a job. I was wrong. |
For sure, wrong! And when you're wrong it hardly helps using words like 'conflate', just makes things even damn worse.
| Quote: |
| If it's that important to you to believe I was passed over for the job for whatever reason you think it was then I'm fine with that. |
I'm glad you're fine with it, b/c as it turns out, it is very, very important to me. |
Seriously, can you send me a private message because I don't understand what I have done that offends you so much. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
| ZIFA wrote: |
| Tompatz wrote: |
| Males outnumber females by about 10-1. |
Where did you get that figure from?
Cos my recruiter told me over half of their E2's since 2010 have been female. |
Kimmi stats.
They are publicly posted on different government websites and categorized by country, visa class and gender. They don't break it down by age and I think that would be an interesting statistic.
. |
Tompatz your Korean experience was prefinancial crisis (ie before 2008) so I suspect that your statistics are out of date.
Annecdotally I would say that there were more males than females and the ratio was probably 3 to 1 rather than 10 to 1.
And by the way that statistic is getting closer to 2 to 1 and will eventually get to 1 to 1 and then females will outnumber males before long. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| creeper1 wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| ZIFA wrote: |
| Tompatz wrote: |
| Males outnumber females by about 10-1. |
Where did you get that figure from?
Cos my recruiter told me over half of their E2's since 2010 have been female. |
Kimmi stats.
They are publicly posted on different government websites and categorized by country, visa class and gender. They don't break it down by age and I think that would be an interesting statistic.
. |
Tompatz your Korean experience was prefinancial crisis (ie before 2008) so I suspect that your statistics are out of date.
Annecdotally I would say that there were more males than females and the ratio was probably 3 to 1 rather than 10 to 1.
And by the way that statistic is getting closer to 2 to 1 and will eventually get to 1 to 1 and then females will outnumber males before long. |
Actually, I still work part time in Korea (consulting for 2 POEs) and spend 3-4 months each year here.
Additionally, the stats for 2009 and 2010 have been published and the numbers above were based on the 2009 stats.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
World Traveler
Joined: 29 May 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| koreatimes wrote: |
| Let me go over that one more time. Let's say a white female has 75% chance, white male 40%, and everyone else 30% or less. You come along and say, "Angst angst angst, I have won't be hired, 0%". I am telling you that is not true. |
OK, but any amount of discrimination prefering females over males in the ESL market place is unfair as hell.
And the reality is: females have a huge advantage over males, just as F visa holders have a huge advantage over E2s.
| supermouse wrote: |
| Its obvious its becoming an employers market. The fact that there are job openings that are female only is proof of that in my opinion. |
| williamsabia wrote: |
| Yes, you're right, female only is something I see often. |
| Jotun_Symph wrote: |
| My recruiters told me the same thing, that most jobs were going to females, probably because of the GEPIK situation. |
| rayray123 wrote: |
| I've been turned down a couple times cause I was told they wanted a female. |
| CPJ wrote: |
If you're a 'good applicant', you will be flooded with calls from recruiters and schools. In Korea, 'good applicant' usually means that you are a young, attractive, North American female. They will all want you to work with them. They will all treat you really well.
If you're not a 'good applicant', then you will probably be ignored or get the jobs that the 'good applicants' don't want. In Korea, this usually means that you are older, not that attractive, and a non-North American male. |
| Jack_Sarang wrote: |
| Basically, if you're a blond, blue-eyed white girl (slim) you'll get any job you want. |
| wylies99 wrote: |
| There are recruiters who call schools and tell them that they have a "young woman in their 20's who would be perfect for their school" |
| Wishmaster wrote: |
| The market is definitely flooded. No doubt about that. Schools can be picky now whereas in the past they just accepted the next available warm body. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| World Traveler wrote: |
OK, but any amount of discrimination preferring females over males in the ESL market place is unfair as hell.
And the reality is: females have a huge advantage over males, just as F visa holders have a huge advantage over E2s. |
If you are worried about a bit of gender bias, ageism, racial bias or advantages that legal residents have over transient workers then you better stay home where political correctness is considered acceptable.
You get out here in the real world you will find that it is dog-eat-dog and if you don't like it they will let you starve (literally).
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| you better stay home where political correctness is considered acceptable |
You mean where gender prejudice is considered unacceptable? I used to work for a company here (in the real world) that used a non-ageist, non sexist, non-racist hiring system and guess what? There were good and bad teachers in equal numbers across all the different groups. Also as far as I know, no parent took their kid away when they realised the teacher wasn't a white American female.
Last edited by edwardcatflap on Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:33 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| you better stay home where political correctness is considered acceptable |
You mean where gender prejudice is considered unacceptable? |
If you want to take on the roll of trying to change the different biases around the planet, be my guest.
If someone is expecting employers abroad to conform to the rules and cultural norms from home then they better be prepared to starve.
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| There's not much you can do to change things I agree, (except maybe any female who disagrees with gender prejudice should not apply for a job advertising females only) but your post sounded a bit like you half supported prejudice in the workplace |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr Lee's Monkey
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 6:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| A lot of what's been posted here in response to my question about the numbers has been utter nonsense, especially World Traveler's contention that females have it much better than males in ESL in Korea. What a load of crap - on par with the post about waitresses. I had noticed a lot of British males posting cheap shot, condescending comments about North American blondes. I'd hoped that if the original colonists of the world saw the numbers, they'd back off the stupid, sexist contentions. Veiled, Catflap, but you did it too. You failed to suggest a man pass on a job. There remains a ton of discrimination in Korea. People reacting to the pedophile started asking for females. Recruiters tell males and females the prospective employer wanted the opposite sex because they think it is a way to avoid an argument and hard feelings. Gonna change your sex to get hired? I know male directors that want females because they think they are easier to push around on the job. I know female directors who wouldn't hire a woman even if it meant having to close their schools. Ttompatz nailed it in his post that suggested it might not be the place for pc proponents. Native speakers are not indispensable in Korea, and people that take issue before they even get here are going to be in for a rough ride. People who get here and proceed as if they, as foreigners, can call the shots - follow their posts over the next few months and see for yourselves. Getting a job in the current climate takes luck and it's best to be ready to jump when someone says to jump, but it's certainly not impossible for a male or a female. Maybe stop focussing on the gender stuff and try making friends and or points with people who are here and working, no matter their gender. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 7:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Veiled, Catflap, but you did it too. You failed to suggest a man pass on a job |
I haven't heard of any teaching jobs in Korea advertising for males only. If you can find one, I'd (obviously) advocate men who care about creating a fairer society refuse to apply for it too. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr Lee's Monkey
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
|
| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| If you look on Dave's Korean job board at MnJ Consulting's ad from 19 September, the second to last entry among her job offerings specifies preferred man. That was just one I found quickly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
AlastairKirby
Joined: 29 Aug 2011
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 2:28 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Mr Lee's Monkey wrote: |
| A lot of what's been posted here in response to my question about the numbers has been utter nonsense, especially World Traveler's contention that females have it much better than males in ESL in Korea. What a load of crap - on par with the post about waitresses. I had noticed a lot of British males posting cheap shot, condescending comments about North American blondes. I'd hoped that if the original colonists of the world saw the numbers, they'd back off the stupid, sexist contentions. Veiled, Catflap, but you did it too. You failed to suggest a man pass on a job. There remains a ton of discrimination in Korea. People reacting to the pedophile started asking for females. Recruiters tell males and females the prospective employer wanted the opposite sex because they think it is a way to avoid an argument and hard feelings. Gonna change your sex to get hired? I know male directors that want females because they think they are easier to push around on the job. I know female directors who wouldn't hire a woman even if it meant having to close their schools. Ttompatz nailed it in his post that suggested it might not be the place for pc proponents. Native speakers are not indispensable in Korea, and people that take issue before they even get here are going to be in for a rough ride. People who get here and proceed as if they, as foreigners, can call the shots - follow their posts over the next few months and see for yourselves. Getting a job in the current climate takes luck and it's best to be ready to jump when someone says to jump, but it's certainly not impossible for a male or a female. Maybe stop focussing on the gender stuff and try making friends and or points with people who are here and working, no matter their gender. |
I find these people annoying as well. But if you look again you will see they are a minority. I'm British and I'm guilty of whining sometimes. But anyone who has ever struggled to find work will be able to relate. Sometimes you blame yourself, sometimes you blame others.
If I'm truly honest, I should have started looking for work a lot sooner. Bad timing. And arrogance. Not doing the research before I left Korea. I thought I could waltz back into a better paying job. Reality has bit hard in this case.
I had pop at you and I think any sour tone in this thread is down to that. Sorry.
I have a lot of friends in Korea. I have a life and a 'family' out there. The people I knew helped me to become a better person. I've only been back in the UK 6 months but I miss my friends over there. I'm passionate about teaching and I want to become a properly qualified teacher in the UK. I want to do the teaching abroad now and not when I'm older. My friends in the UK aren't going anywhere. I have the rest of my life with them. But I want to devote the next few years to Korea, while I can. So being knocked back and ignored by recruiters hurts when I sincerely want to go back and be with the people I care about and do a job I love.
I am a very sincere person which is why I struggled with Shifty's posts. Seriously, tell me what I did wrong. If you see something that should be of concern to me in the manner I present myself I would like to be made aware of it so I can rectify it in future.
The market has shifted. I'm optimistic that it will get better. I don't resent people straight out of uni getting jobs ahead of me. It's a fantastic thing to do in your early twenties. It's a great way for them to save money, see the world, and get valuable work experience. Good luck to them. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ZIFA
Joined: 23 Feb 2011
Location: Dici che il fiume..Trova la via al mare
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ttompatz wrote: |
| creeper1 wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
| ZIFA wrote: |
| Tompatz wrote: |
| Males outnumber females by about 10-1. |
Where did you get that figure from?
Cos my recruiter told me over half of their E2's since 2010 have been female. |
Kimmi stats.
They are publicly posted on different government websites and categorized by country, visa class and gender. They don't break it down by age and I think that would be an interesting statistic.
. |
Tompatz your Korean experience was prefinancial crisis (ie before 2008) so I suspect that your statistics are out of date.
Annecdotally I would say that there were more males than females and the ratio was probably 3 to 1 rather than 10 to 1.
And by the way that statistic is getting closer to 2 to 1 and will eventually get to 1 to 1 and then females will outnumber males before long. |
Actually, I still work part time in Korea (consulting for 2 POEs) and spend 3-4 months each year here.
Additionally, the stats for 2009 and 2010 have been published and the numbers above were based on the 2009 stats.
. |
I think you may find that things have changed.
It was toward the end of 2009 that something unprecedented ocurred-the number of applicants began to outnumber the jobs available.
I have only anecdotal evidence but I'm fairly sure that from this moment on females formed a majority of first time E2's. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mr Lee's Monkey
Joined: 24 Oct 2007
|
| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 4:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Allistair, thanks for your most recent post. I'm not an expert and I've made some poor choices and gotten into a few situations that would make your toes curl during the course of the time I've been here. We all have our reasons to be here - right down to the mercenary turds who are in it for the money alone. As for you finding work asap - if you have all of your documents in order right now, you are at a distinct advantage. Use the hell out of any and all recruiters and look on Koreabridge, Craigslist, local sites. Join the Geoje teacher's group and ESL Click on Facebook, and find more sites like that. Talk to people and give them the most relevant information - you have experience, your documents, and you're ready to go. Don't get disheartened and don't look too hard for what you are doing wrong. Look for ads on Dave's that list a school rather than a recruiter, and give them a short, confident idea of who you are. Get your ass back over here and then worry about getting something better or more suited if the vehicle you choose turns out to be a lemon. It'll happen for you, and I wish you all the luck in the world. Don't let the jerks on Dave's get under your skin - if and when they do, don't let them know it. Not all foreigners are here to help other foreigners, which you probably already realize. Stick to business, stick to the facts, and stick it all over the place til something breaks your way. And it will. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
