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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:48 am Post subject: |
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| This thread should be remembered next time people complain about the terms foreigner or waygookin or how they'll "never truly be accepted here" or so on... |
I've never understood why foreigners here moan about that in the first place. It's well known that in most regions of the UK there are villages where you will never be accepted as a local no matter how long you've stayed in a place or contributed to society if you weren't originally from those parts, so why should people expect things to be any different in a foreign country? I imagine the same is true of the States. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| T-J wrote: |
I think since Jonathan feels enough of a connection with Korea and his Korean heritage to have a Korean name (이승민), it is safe to say he considers himself to be Korean-American.
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I'm unsure how his opinion is relevant to the facts of his citizenship.
Does he have an American passport? Does he hold American citizenship?
If so he is an American. An American of Korean heritage to be sure, but an American none the less. What he considers himself to be has no real bearing on the FACTS. |
lol
Yes, according to the facts, he is American and the newspaper has done nothing that could arouse biased reporting. You're absolutely correct.
Okay everybody, sorry but this thread is done, the facts have been presented and the court hearing is over. No more supposition to be had here!
(To be fair, I don't have any interest in the discussion, just poking fun a little.)
| Steelrails wrote: |
| This thread should be remembered next time people complain about the terms foreigner or waygookin or how they'll "never truly be accepted here" or so on... |
You must be quite limber with all the stretches you make. |
That's not a stretch but a very apt comparison...Basically some people have been outright stating since he's of Korean heritage his opinion doesn't count as a real American's...even though he IS an American.
And when some Koreans do the exact same thing ('Your opinion doesn't count because you're a foreigner') they are among the first to complain about it.
The hypocrisy here is so thick you could cut it with a knife.
Let's imagine a Westerner who's obtained Korean citizenship. Now let's imagine he made some comments on Dokdo. Then by the same logic people are applying here his opinion doesn't matter because he's not Korean.
Sounds pretty stupid the other way around doesn't it? Well it sounds just as dumb (and xenophobic to boot) this way as well. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:30 am Post subject: |
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I think the OP worded comments poorly and responses have largely been focused on how the kid's ethnicity has affected his feelings on and awareness of the matter.
To do that fun spin reversal thing, if a Western foreigner gets Korean citizenship and then proceeds to push for that sea to the east of Korea to be called The Sea of Japan, do you think Koreans would ignore his ethnicity and how it affects his opinion?
To be clear, I agree that saying the kid isn't American is bad. I also think the paper is drumming up a story out of thin air to further their agenda. But I'm also baffled this thread has this many posts that are focused on the kid and not the paper. People never get bored of talking about those islands east of Ulleung-do, I guess. |
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bekinseki
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 1:02 am Post subject: |
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Turns out he was born in Korea, and his mom is non-Korean, if that answers any questions.
Also, he wasn't in Dokdo to promote Korea's territorial claim, but to lobby for the reintroduction of sea lions. Looks like the Korea Herald dropped the ball on that one. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
I think the OP worded comments poorly and responses have largely been focused on how the kid's ethnicity has affected his feelings on and awareness of the matter.
To do that fun spin reversal thing, if a Western foreigner gets Korean citizenship and then proceeds to push for that sea to the east of Korea to be called The Sea of Japan, do you think Koreans would ignore his ethnicity and how it affects his opinion?
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This is exactly my point. Don't we criticize Koreans all the time for doing that kind of thing (for not ignoring ethnicity) Looks like the claims of moral superiority and superior enlightenment have just fallen flat on their faces. |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| That's exactly right. Therefore the only logical reason for the KT article to mention that the boy was AMERICAN was to imply that his ethnicity was not Korean. His enthicity and family ties were much more relevant to the story than his nationality. It was an obvious attempt at deception. The story did not once mention that the boy was in any way Korean in the article. Very misleading. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| This is exactly my point. Don't we criticize Koreans all the time for doing that kind of thing (for not ignoring ethnicity) Looks like the claims of moral superiority and superior enlightenment have just fallen flat on their faces. |
It's fallen flat on the faces of what, 10 people who posted on this thread?
Go pester them. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Let's imagine a Westerner who's obtained Korean citizenship. Now let's imagine he made some comments on Dokdo. Then by the same logic people are applying here his opinion doesn't matter because he's not Korean.
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I think a more appropriate hypothetical would be a mirror of the situation in the story: An American goes to Korea and becomes a Korean citizen. While in Korea he gets involved in an issue that is much more important to Americans than to Koreans, (Let's say, he's loves American football and is trying to promote it in Korea). Then a major US newspaper writes a story titled: "A Korean man's love for American football." |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| flakfizer wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Let's imagine a Westerner who's obtained Korean citizenship. Now let's imagine he made some comments on Dokdo. Then by the same logic people are applying here his opinion doesn't matter because he's not Korean.
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I think a more appropriate hypothetical would be a mirror of the situation in the story: An American goes to Korea and becomes a Korean citizen. While in Korea he gets involved in an issue that is much more important to Americans than to Koreans, (Let's say, he's loves American football and is trying to promote it in Korea). Then a major US newspaper writes a story titled: "A Korean man's love for American football." |
Exactly. |
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: |
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Some people here need to read Richard Nesbitt's a geography of thought.
Wow as much as East Asians have a problem with logic, it seems Westerners equally have as much an issue dealing with contexts.
The kid is American, he is also ethnically Korean. He can be both, he is both. |
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Triban
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
Location: Suwon Station
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| flakfizer wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
Let's imagine a Westerner who's obtained Korean citizenship. Now let's imagine he made some comments on Dokdo. Then by the same logic people are applying here his opinion doesn't matter because he's not Korean.
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I think a more appropriate hypothetical would be a mirror of the situation in the story: An American goes to Korea and becomes a Korean citizen. While in Korea he gets involved in an issue that is much more important to Americans than to Koreans, (Let's say, he's loves American football and is trying to promote it in Korea). Then a major US newspaper writes a story titled: "A Korean man's love for American football." |
Exactly. |
Pegged it.
Nail in coffin. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I think a more appropriate hypothetical would be a mirror of the situation in the story: An American goes to Korea and becomes a Korean citizen. While in Korea he gets involved in an issue that is much more important to Americans than to Koreans, (Let's say, he's loves American football and is trying to promote it in Korea). Then a major US newspaper writes a story titled: "A Korean man's love for American football |
Except it would have to be an American goes to Korea, marries a Korean woman and their son, who was born in Korea, wants to suppport an American cause. But apart from that yes, it would be slightly misleading to print a story saying Korean kid supports Iraq War or something, I agree. "A Korean man's love for American football' would be a total non-story when you consider how crazy they are about baseball. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I think a more appropriate hypothetical would be a mirror of the situation in the story: An American goes to Korea and becomes a Korean citizen. While in Korea he gets involved in an issue that is much more important to Americans than to Koreans, (Let's say, he's loves American football and is trying to promote it in Korea). Then a major US newspaper writes a story titled: "A Korean man's love for American football |
Except it would have to be an American goes to Korea, marries a Korean woman and their son, who was born in Korea, wants to suppport an American cause. But apart from that yes, it would be slightly misleading to print a story saying Korean kid supports Iraq War or something, I agree. "A Korean man's love for American football' would be a total non-story when you consider how crazy they are about baseball. |
Only 이승민 (Jonathan) wasn't born in the U.S. he was born in Korea. I'm not saying he's not American.
The article definitely is trying to slant his ethnicity for higher impact though.
Nothing new in this though. Hines Ward wouldn't be referred to as remotely Korean had he not been so successful.
Same old story. Caught dealing drugs and you hold a foreign passport, then your a foreigner despite the fact you have two Korean parents and you yourself were born in Korea. Become successful and have a drop of Korean blood, then you are suddenly Korean.
The only surprising thing in this thread is that people don't understand this yet.
Then again it is Dave's...
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Some of you all are really too sensitive about this. It's not racist to point out that as a Korean-American he doesn't represent typical American interest in Dokdo, which most Americans have never even heard of. It's not the same as asking if he knows how to use a fork or if he's tasted hamburgers before. |
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bekinseki
Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I find it more interesting that the Herald totally misrepresented what he was doing there. As I previously mentioned, he was not made an ambassador of Dokdo to raise awareness of Korea's territorial claims; he was there for environmental reasons. |
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