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DejaVu
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Location: Your dreams
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 Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:08 am Post subject: Re: hikikomori |
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| tideout wrote: |
"to make a good life. this isn't rocket-science."
What makes a good life?
Hikikomori
Some say Japan is 20-30 years ahead of Korea.
There's a phenomena in Japan over the last decade or so called "hikikomori" where youth generally isolate themselves and say to hell with killing yourself on exams so you can go to a university so you go and be a stupid drone for a corporation you don't care about. If it were to happen in Korea you could add in military service but, as they say, Korea's behind a bit.
It's a realization that the system's a meaningless farce that makes very few happy and so they don't participate. |
Wow! I never heard of Hikikomori. I had no idea there were other modern-day intellectuals in the world besides myself. This is blessed news to my eyes. |
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tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:40 am Post subject: Re: hikikomori |
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| DejaVu wrote: |
| tideout wrote: |
"to make a good life. this isn't rocket-science."
What makes a good life?
Hikikomori
Some say Japan is 20-30 years ahead of Korea.
There's a phenomena in Japan over the last decade or so called "hikikomori" where youth generally isolate themselves and say to hell with killing yourself on exams so you can go to a university so you go and be a stupid drone for a corporation you don't care about. If it were to happen in Korea you could add in military service but, as they say, Korea's behind a bit.
It's a realization that the system's a meaningless farce that makes very few happy and so they don't participate. |
Wow! I never heard of Hikikomori. I had no idea there were other modern-day intellectuals in the world besides myself. This is blessed news to my eyes. |
Last edited by tideout on Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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markhan
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: |
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Am I missing something here?
What do you mean by "For what?"
Having a good job, marrying well, and raising a good family are fundamental to having a balanced and fulfilled life.
| zdrav wrote: |
| HarryMorgan wrote: |
I have yet to meet a Korean who can hold their liquor, especially compared to the Irish I've been around in the past. Most of the Korean people I know are trashed after five drinks. Guess it's the enzyme thing. Maybe that explains why I see at least three or four Korean men wearing suits passed out drunk on the sidewalk weekly where I live.
What we have here seems a bit sad: Koreans work near around the most, drink about the most, and commit suicide the most. I'm not trying to hate too much, but, as far as I know, the societal awareness of these problems in the face of any attempt at preventative measures, or a general acknowledgement of the problems themselves, seems lacking. What has surprised me, is that nearly every single Korean I've met (mostly women, I admit) who has traveled a bit or studied outside of Korea, tends to strongly dislike their home country. The ones who haven't, give me the four seasons mumbo and tell me that the same music my 13 year old students listen to is popular worldwide, etc.
I don't know. The overworked + alcohol abuse + suicide stats, seem to point towards a greater malfunction than many would like to recognize. But I can understand it a bit better from an historical perspective. I still think Mars needs some cheeb sometimes; it could at least offer an alternative way of letting loose which doesn't require soju and a bridge. |
Koreans don't seem to see life as something to be enjoyed. Rather, they seem to view it as a stage on which you must not fail because failure is disgraceful.
Students work crazy hard to get into university. For what?
To get a good job? For what?
To marry well. For what?
To raise a good family. For what?
To have kids who work crazy hard to get into university.
It's a stressful and relentless cycle, and nowhere in that cycle is a time to simply enjoy life. Maybe that's why so many Koreans take to Protestantism, because Protestantism pretty much treats life as something to be endured rather than savoured. |
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tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:48 am Post subject: |
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[quote="markhan"]
Last edited by tideout on Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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liveinkorea316
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| markhan wrote: |
Am I missing something here?
What do you mean by "For what?"
Having a good job, marrying well, and raising a good family are fundamental to having a balanced and fulfilled life.
| zdrav wrote: |
Koreans don't seem to see life as something to be enjoyed. Rather, they seem to view it as a stage on which you must not fail because failure is disgraceful.
Students work crazy hard to get into university. For what?
To get a good job? For what?
To marry well. For what?
To raise a good family. For what?
To have kids who work crazy hard to get into university.
It's a stressful and relentless cycle, and nowhere in that cycle is a time to simply enjoy life. Maybe that's why so many Koreans take to Protestantism, because Protestantism pretty much treats life as something to be endured rather than savoured. |
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I think "for what" means that they do these things out of a sense of obligation and not for the reasons that would make them fulfilling. That's why the jobs suck, students hate their study and there are tons of sham marriages. People aren't in these things for the goodness they can bring to their lives but rather out of robotic obligation. To enjoy themselves Koreans I know love to escape these strictures and hang out and drink with old buddies and get up to mischief. But the time to do this is so far and few between. |
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zdrav
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:52 am Post subject: |
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| markhan wrote: |
Am I missing something here?
What do you mean by "For what?"
Having a good job, marrying well, and raising a good family are fundamental to having a balanced and fulfilled life. |
Not if you get a job that overworks you, marry someone you feel obligated to marry, and have a family with whom you spend no time. |
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markhan
Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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I kind of got the idea what the original poster was trying to say but I asked the question anyway for the simple reason many in this forum, more than general public, tend to dislike �conventional lifestyle� where they dread working in a cubicle 9 to 6 being paid pittance for corporations. Look how many times we get posts in this forum about their friends back in the US leading a boring life whereas you guys get to travel to many countries, meet interesting people, get lucky with foreign girls, and so and so on. So, it is not surprising that you guys will blast away �robotic obligation� of conventional Korean everyday life. But from the majority of Koreans� perspective, (as well from Americans�) you guys look �immature, lazy, directionless, and aimless in life.�
Also let�s be clear about being �over-worked� here. How would you define that? Based on whose perspective? Based on West-bred perspective? Based on Koreans� perspective? What? And don�t give me examples of Koreans you know complaining about �how busy they are with work� Because that complaint is universal.
Also, how would you know about �sham marriages� in Korea? Are you an expert in this field?
| liveinkorea316 wrote: |
| I think "for what" means that they do these things out of a sense of obligation and not for the reasons that would make them fulfilling. That's why the jobs suck, students hate their study and there are tons of sham marriages. People aren't in these things for the goodness they can bring to their lives but rather out of robotic obligation. To enjoy themselves Koreans I know love to escape these strictures and hang out and drink with old buddies and get up to mischief. But the time to do this is so far and few between. |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:42 am Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
That GOOD is an interesting site.
I always wonder about those knocking public transportation in the US, though. Are they riding the bus? I've been in plenty of US cities where the bus will take you where you want to go. I didn't see many people on those buses when I took them. And I bet the people on them weren't visiting websites like GOOD.
For example, I know someone working in China. He always takes a taxi or a car and driver. His goal is to own a large expensive car and have a driver chauffeur him. Yet he'll knock the U.S. for its lack of public transportation.
Besides, you can always ride your bike, right? |
It's interesting alright. Here's a link from good.is that I also found very interesting:
http://humandevelopment.weaintplastic.com/ |
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myenglishisno
Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
Many Koreans, especially men, say they use drinking to blow off work stress.
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If they regulated the working hours to the point where most Koreans were working 40 hour work weeks and young Koreans were studying for the same amount of time, then very many birds would be killed with one stone.
Productivity in this country is dismal compared to other countries. People are mainly wasting time at work or school then wasting even more time trying to erase their bad memories with alcohol. They could be using that time to build themselves up at home and strengthening the family. Shortening the hours spent at work/school would do nothing but good things for this country.
Just look at the French. They work exactly half the amount of hours as Koreans and they actually get more work done overall.
Unfortunately, this won't even start to happen until everyone who is now above 40 in this country is retired. |
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marsreloaded
Joined: 23 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| zdrav wrote: |
Koreans don't seem to see life as something to be enjoyed. Rather, they seem to view it as a stage on which you must not fail because failure is disgraceful.
Students work crazy hard to get into university. For what?
To get a good job? For what?
To marry well. For what?
To raise a good family. For what?
To have kids who work crazy hard to get into university.
It's a stressful and relentless cycle, and nowhere in that cycle is a time to simply enjoy life. Maybe that's why so many Koreans take to Protestantism, because Protestantism pretty much treats life as something to be endured rather than savoured. |
you just described americans. |
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zdrav
Joined: 08 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| marsreloaded wrote: |
| zdrav wrote: |
Koreans don't seem to see life as something to be enjoyed. Rather, they seem to view it as a stage on which you must not fail because failure is disgraceful.
Students work crazy hard to get into university. For what?
To get a good job? For what?
To marry well. For what?
To raise a good family. For what?
To have kids who work crazy hard to get into university.
It's a stressful and relentless cycle, and nowhere in that cycle is a time to simply enjoy life. Maybe that's why so many Koreans take to Protestantism, because Protestantism pretty much treats life as something to be endured rather than savoured. |
you just described americans. |
Many Americans opt out of this mindset though. Though there is a certain stigma to being a slacker in American society, it is much more intense in Korea.
In America, the slacker is celebrated as a kind of lovable anti-hero. In Korea, he's much more a disgrace. |
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No_hite_pls
Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Location: Don't hate me because I'm right
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Most things in life are about moderation folks. |
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marsreloaded
Joined: 23 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| zdrav wrote: |
| marsreloaded wrote: |
| zdrav wrote: |
Koreans don't seem to see life as something to be enjoyed. Rather, they seem to view it as a stage on which you must not fail because failure is disgraceful.
Students work crazy hard to get into university. For what?
To get a good job? For what?
To marry well. For what?
To raise a good family. For what?
To have kids who work crazy hard to get into university.
It's a stressful and relentless cycle, and nowhere in that cycle is a time to simply enjoy life. Maybe that's why so many Koreans take to Protestantism, because Protestantism pretty much treats life as something to be endured rather than savoured. |
you just described americans. |
Many Americans opt out of this mindset though. Though there is a certain stigma to being a slacker in American society, it is much more intense in Korea.
In America, the slacker is celebrated as a kind of lovable anti-hero. In Korea, he's much more a disgrace. |
i wouldn't say many. considering i could just look at my facebook to see the amount of americans that fully describe your aforementioned post i'd go with few. but that's my experience. i know VERY few people in the states that are doing what they love and not doing what they were told to do from an early age. i know MANY americans on the other hand that are absolutely miserable and would be the first to tell you how much money they made if you even questioned whether they were actually happy. |
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DejaVu
Joined: 27 Jan 2011
Location: Your dreams
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| marsreloaded wrote: |
| zdrav wrote: |
| marsreloaded wrote: |
| zdrav wrote: |
Koreans don't seem to see life as something to be enjoyed. Rather, they seem to view it as a stage on which you must not fail because failure is disgraceful.
Students work crazy hard to get into university. For what?
To get a good job? For what?
To marry well. For what?
To raise a good family. For what?
To have kids who work crazy hard to get into university.
It's a stressful and relentless cycle, and nowhere in that cycle is a time to simply enjoy life. Maybe that's why so many Koreans take to Protestantism, because Protestantism pretty much treats life as something to be endured rather than savoured. |
you just described americans. |
Many Americans opt out of this mindset though. Though there is a certain stigma to being a slacker in American society, it is much more intense in Korea.
In America, the slacker is celebrated as a kind of lovable anti-hero. In Korea, he's much more a disgrace. |
i wouldn't say many. considering i could just look at my facebook to see the amount of americans that fully describe your aforementioned post i'd go with few. but that's my experience. i know VERY few people in the states that are doing what they love and not doing what they were told to do from an early age. i know MANY americans on the other hand that are absolutely miserable and would be the first to tell you how much money they made if you even questioned whether they were actually happy. |
Are you from America? Which part? I love criticising the place but in my many years living there, I've met very few people that would quote their income if you questioned their happiness. This is either a huge exaggeration or you just know MANY awful people. |
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marsreloaded
Joined: 23 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| DejaVu wrote: |
Are you from America? Which part? I love criticising the place but in my many years living there, I've met very few people that would quote their income if you questioned their happiness. This is either a huge exaggeration or you just know MANY awful people. |
Doesn't matter whether I'm from America.
Americans live to work is a phrase that has been around longer than you've been alive. This isn't groundbreaking stuff here einstein. |
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