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Long timers that are illiterate
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myenglishisno



Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:21 am    Post subject: Long timers that are illiterate Reply with quote

Met a few teachers the other night who've been here for more than a few years. We got talking and got on the topic of Korean. All of them divulged that they couldn't read a word of 한글 nor were they great at speaking.

My Korean is far from perfect but I have been studying since I've been here. My spoken Korean should be much better but anything to do with written Korean and I'm doing pretty well. I keep a journal in Korean, talk to Korean friends online in Korean, as well as read the news and so on. I actually thought I was well behind the average for people that have been there as long as I.

Anyway, not counting the people who have been here for fewer than two years, I keep running into long-timers who can't read 한글. Either they can't read it or they can barely read it. Sometimes they're proud of it like it is some kind of accomplishment and other times they hide it for awhile and it takes awhile to piece it together.

Part of me would write a person off for this as in the same way, I'd write someone off for believing that pro-wrestling was real. Then again, some of them seem like perfectly intelligent, normal people. That and it seems like more than 60% (rough estimate) of the long timers (2+ years) I meet can't read.

Is there any excuse for this? Why can't you read (assuming you can't)?
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Pa Jan Jo A Hamnida



Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Location: Not Korea

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you walk on Soju too?
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sadguy



Joined: 13 Feb 2011

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

funny you mention this... i recently met a guy who's been here for 3 years and can't read hangul.

he's in a long term relationship with a korean girl. his excuse is that he wants to learn it formally in a class... but... that's a crap excuse.

i thought people like him were just myths. but they do exist!!
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Died By Bear



Joined: 13 Jul 2010
Location: On the big lake they call Gitche Gumee

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Long timers that are illiterate Reply with quote

myenglishisno wrote:
Met a few teachers the other night who've been here for more than a few years. We got talking and got on the topic of Korean. All of them divulged that they couldn't read a word of 한글 nor were they great at speaking.

My Korean is far from perfect but I have been studying since I've been here. My spoken Korean should be much better but anything to do with written Korean and I'm doing pretty well. I keep a journal in Korean, talk to Korean friends online in Korean, as well as read the news and so on. I actually thought I was well behind the average for people that have been there as long as I.

Anyway, not counting the people who have been here for fewer than two years, I keep running into long-timers who can't read 한글. Either they can't read it or they can barely read it. Sometimes they're proud of it like it is some kind of accomplishment and other times they hide it for awhile and it takes awhile to piece it together.

Part of me would write a person off for this as in the same way, I'd write someone off for believing that pro-wrestling was real. Then again, some of them seem like perfectly intelligent, normal people. That and it seems like more than 60% (rough estimate) of the long timers (2+ years) I meet can't read.

Is there any excuse for this? Why can't you read (assuming you can't)?



That's nothing. I know a guy well into his 10th year and never learned to read. Strange thing is that he's intelligent enough to learn reading and conversational Korean, but he just doesn't want to. Knowing enough Korean to talk your way out of a pinch can be a life saver in Korea.


I hung out with a guy that knew Korean so well, he argued with 2 officials for 20 minutes and they were so impressed with his Korean skills and honesty, they not only let us off the hook, they also invited us out to dinner. Awesome times. Learn as much as you can if you're going to live in Korea.


Last edited by Died By Bear on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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CentralCali



Joined: 17 May 2007

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP: Here's something you might be interested in knowing. Not everyone can pick up a foreign language easily, regardless of where they happen to be living.
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myenglishisno



Joined: 08 Mar 2011
Location: Geumchon

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralCali wrote:
OP: Here's something you might be interested in knowing. Not everyone can pick up a foreign language easily, regardless of where they happen to be living.


I don't think learning how to read Korean script falls into this category. It isn't language acquisition. All it is, is memorizing shapes and matching them with sounds.

Memorizing takes a few hours followed by a few weeks of reading the occasional sign to get relatively comfortable with it.

One good excuse to me would be dyslexia.
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calendar



Joined: 22 Sep 2011
Location: being a hermit

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
i recently met a guy who's been here for 3 years


3 years doesn't make a long timer.

Quote:
Is there any excuse for this? Why can't you read (assuming you can't)?


Being this generic really doesn't help your case.

Quote:
My Korean is far from perfect but I have been studying since I've been here. My spoken Korean should be much better but anything to do with written Korean and I'm doing pretty well. I keep a journal in Korean, talk to Korean friends online in Korean, as well as read the news and so on. I actually thought I was well behind the average for people that have been there as long as I.


Being a little 'holier than thou' aren't you? It is amazing how some people do things in this country then expect everyone to have the same desire/motivation and expect them to want to do the same things as them. Unrealiastic.

Quote:
Here's something you might be interested in knowing. Not everyone can pick up a foreign language easily, regardless of where they happen to be living.


This is correct and it applies to the Korean students as well Although many FTs think it doesn't when they complain about their students' English ability after studying it for years.

Quote:
I don't think learning how to read Korean script falls into this category


It does. You lack a lot of understanding and think just because you can do it, everyone can. They can't. You seem very condescending and arrogant with your posts and you forget that people have other interests that take up their time
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Jack_Sarang



Joined: 13 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep in mind OP is the the same idiot who couldn't navigate his way properly through Sadang Station without jumping turnstiles during a transfer.


I'm sure his "한글" amazing.
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Garciua



Joined: 16 Sep 2011
Location: Iceland

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you plan to live in a country for years you should at least try to learn the language so you have a basic grasp of it. It's up to the individual of course but you should put some effort in to it and not totally disregard it.
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

myenglishisno wrote:
CentralCali wrote:
OP: Here's something you might be interested in knowing. Not everyone can pick up a foreign language easily, regardless of where they happen to be living.


I don't think learning how to read Korean script falls into this category. It isn't language acquisition. All it is, is memorizing shapes and matching them with sounds.

Memorizing takes a few hours followed by a few weeks of reading the occasional sign to get relatively comfortable with it.

One good excuse to me would be dyslexia.


Agreed. I'm by no means in the learn Korean or leave Korea crowd, but it took me about an hour to learn to read the script. Even if language doesn't come easily to you, it's more learning a code than learning a language, at least at first. The only people I know who say the alphabet is too difficult are people who have put literally zero effort into doing so, largely because they assume it's too difficult.
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Noise



Joined: 02 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I basically agree with the OP here. I don't think it's immoral or an insult to your host country or anything, it's just an extremely self-limiting choice.

I remember the German manager of one of the five-star hotels in Dalian, China. He was complaining about all the things he hated about living in China, and got to saying that there were no scented candles. I mentioned a shop I knew that had very nice scented candles. "Where is this shop", he asked. I told him what street it was on and what the nearest cross streets were. He looked shocked, then guffawed loudly, as if I had said something preposterous. "I don't know the names of streets in this city", he said, in a tone that suggested that it would be outlandish if he did. I think he'd been there for about two years. It would have taken what, ten minutes to study a map? Unsurprisingly he was very unhappy there.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

learning a language is all about motivation. Let's face it, the majority of people come to Korea to make money. Not many of them truthfully do so out of a love of Korean culture, though they may say so at their interview. The average old timer here has probably sorted out some good working conditions, probably works twice as many hours as you, legally or illegally and makes three times the money. They probably don't have the time to keep a Korean journal, read the news or talk to Korean friends online. They might have learned how to read Hangul when they first got here but let it slip from their memories over the years. the years when they kept convincing themselves they were going to leave the country very soon.

They've also worked put that improving their Korean is not going to get them a better teaching job (while spending time on getting better qualified might) and if they live in a resonably sized city it isn't preventing them from getting laid either. Sure they would be able to read a Korean menu or find a candle shop but maybe they don't like Korean food, can decipher the one or two dishes they order on a regular basis, or get their Korean GF to help them out.

All that leaves is the occasional guilty feeling related to what ChrisM says, that you should at least try to learn the language but it's a similar feeling to 'I should go to the gym on a regular basis', and how many people act on that?


Last edited by edwardcatflap on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
learning a language is all about motivation. Let's face it, the majority of people come to Korea to make money. Not many of them truthfully do so out of a love of Korean culture, though they may say so at their interview. The average old timer here has probably sorted out some good working conditions, probably works twice as many hours as you, legally or illegally and makes three times the money. They probably don't have the time to keep a Korean journal, read the news or talk to Korean friends online. They might have learned how to read Hangul when they first got here but let it slip from their memories over the years. the years when they kept convincing themselves they were going to leave the country very soon.

They've also worked put that improving their Korean is not going to get them a better teaching job and if they live in a resonably sized city and are single, isn't preventing them from getting laid either. Sure they would be able to read a Korean menu but maybe they don't like Korean food or can decipher the one or two dishes they order on a regular basis.

All that leaves is the occasional guilty feeling related to what ChrisM says, that you should at least try to learn the language but it's a similar feeling to 'I should go to the gym on a regular basis', and how many people act on that?


We're not talking about learning a language. We're talking about learning to read 한글. One is challenging, the other is not. As for having it "slip from their memories", I don't really see how that's possible as you're constantly surrounded by Korean script just by living in the country.


Last edited by northway on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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methdxman



Joined: 14 Sep 2010

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Long timers that are illiterate Reply with quote

myenglishisno wrote:
Met a few teachers the other night who've been here for more than a few years. We got talking and got on the topic of Korean. All of them divulged that they couldn't read a word of 한글 nor were they great at speaking.

My Korean is far from perfect but I have been studying since I've been here. My spoken Korean should be much better but anything to do with written Korean and I'm doing pretty well. I keep a journal in Korean, talk to Korean friends online in Korean, as well as read the news and so on. I actually thought I was well behind the average for people that have been there as long as I.

Anyway, not counting the people who have been here for fewer than two years, I keep running into long-timers who can't read 한글. Either they can't read it or they can barely read it. Sometimes they're proud of it like it is some kind of accomplishment and other times they hide it for awhile and it takes awhile to piece it together.

Part of me would write a person off for this as in the same way, I'd write someone off for believing that pro-wrestling was real. Then again, some of them seem like perfectly intelligent, normal people. That and it seems like more than 60% (rough estimate) of the long timers (2+ years) I meet can't read.

Is there any excuse for this? Why can't you read (assuming you can't)?


Much props, keep it going.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
As for having it "slip from their memories", I don't really see how that's possible as you're constantly surrounded by Korean script just by living in the country.



Believe me it is. I learned how to read Hangul around four years ago, never really used it for another 4 years then had to virtually re-learn it when I got married to a Korean recently.
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