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allnighters11
Joined: 05 Jul 2011
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 Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:28 pm Post subject: Fired From Job, A little advice plese! |
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I just got fired by my manger because it would be cheaper to have a Korean teacher in my place. The manager has advised me that the reason for firing is to make higher profits. He has also not given me 60 days notice. I have recorded our conversation and he has also admitted that what he is doing is "a little illegal".
I have contacted the labour board for some advice on what to do next but to be honest they have been next to useless, I'm just wondering does anyone have any advices for me exactly how I can dispute this. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:37 pm Post subject: Re: Fired From Job, A little advice plese! |
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| allnighters11 wrote: |
I just got fired by my manger because it would be cheaper to have a Korean teacher in my place. The manager has advised me that the reason for firing is to make higher profits. He has also not given me 60 days notice. I have recorded our conversation and he has also admitted that what he is doing is "a little illegal".
I have contacted the labour board for some advice on what to do next but to be honest they have been next to useless, I'm just wondering does anyone have any advices for me exactly how I can dispute this. |
How long have you been at your school? Specifically have you been there for at LEAST six months or longer? |
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allnighters11
Joined: 05 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I have been at the school 11 months, but our academy was sold to another owner 6 months in. This manager then made us sign new contracts for another year if we wanted to get out bonuses... so technically 5 months with this manager but 11 months with this school |
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mandrews1985
Joined: 12 Sep 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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Though I'm by no means an expert on this forum it appears the manager is doing a lot of things illegally.
It is illegal to make you sign a new contract, I'd even go as far to saying the new contract will not stand up in court. It is law that after you complete 12 months you are entitled to a severance, so no 2nd contract was needed. I presume he didnt make you get a new visa for this contract and cancel the last visa?
How to dispute it? No, I don't know enough, but certain a few reliable people will be on sooner or later to help you out! |
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allnighters11
Joined: 05 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for the advice, and I know for a fact he did not change the visa at the time of signing our new contracts as my workmate had to chase him for 3 months to extend his as it was to run out much earlier than mine when we resigned. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I would visit the labor board in person with all relevant documents. Based on the info you have given us so far, it looks like you have a case. Unless there is something else we don't know... |
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proverbs
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| dude, sorry to hear that. he sounds like a really shady guy. i agree with theurbanmyth, go there in person with all the evidence. i don't understand - why would all the teachers sign on another year to get their bonus?! this was obviously wrong, and its surprising to hear that the teachers actually signed it. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| It is illegal to make you sign a new contract |
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| why would all the teachers sign on another year to get their bonus? |
First, it was not another year.
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| our academy was sold to another owner 6 months in. |
Next, the old owner could simply fire the teachers if they refused to sign a new contract. It's part of the bargaining the old owner has with the new owner. If the new owner pays more, then the old owner will get teachers to sign on for a year with the new owner. It is better to hire a new teacher than have to pay an unwilling teacher 6 months into the new contract term.
Either find a new school or just make up excuses not to sign the contract. As long as you don't sign the new contract, they can't enforce it. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
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| It is illegal to make you sign a new contract |
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| why would all the teachers sign on another year to get their bonus? |
First, it was not another year.
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| our academy was sold to another owner 6 months in. |
Next, the old owner could simply fire the teachers if they refused to sign a new contract. . |
Not exactly true. It depends on the length of time. If you have been at a place for six months or more, Korean Labor law SPECIFICALLY forbids this practice without giving 30 days notice or pay in lieu thereof.
Neither of which is appealing to a hakwon boss. Generally they want you out of there ASAP so you don't influence the kids/parents. And to come up with 2 million plus per teacher at the same time might mean he and his wife are living on noodles for the next three months. Contrary to the oft-spoken opinion on Dave's not all hakwon bosses are raking it in.
And that's not even getting into the questions of how the labor board might view this coerced signing of a new contract. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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| If you have been at a place for six months or more, Korean Labor law SPECIFICALLY forbids this practice without giving 30 days notice or pay in lieu thereof. |
Then, you are reinforcing what I am saying stronger than my words. It is 6 months, or 7 if you include the 30 day notice.
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| labor board might view this coerced signing of a new contract |
There are bigger fish to fry. If school owners are doing this, then labor board (or probably other parts of government) would be investigating criminal acts like embezzlement.
Telling a teacher to sign a new contract or they will be fired is small potatoes.
And if that fails to convince you, why would you want to stick around and fight this knowing the school wants you out? It's much easier to just find another school. I don't see a shortage of job offers. I still get Japan offers in email and I haven't been there since 2007. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| koreatimes wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you have been at a place for six months or more, Korean Labor law SPECIFICALLY forbids this practice without giving 30 days notice or pay in lieu thereof. |
Then, you are reinforcing what I am saying stronger than my words. It is 6 months, or 7 if you include the 30 day notice.
| Quote: |
| labor board might view this coerced signing of a new contract |
There are bigger fish to fry. If school owners are doing this, then labor board (or probably other parts of government) would be investigating criminal acts like embezzlement.
Telling a teacher to sign a new contract or they will be fired is small potatoes.
. |
The labor board does not investigate criminal acts. That is for the police and courts. They merely make rulings on labor disputes. Telling a teacher to sign a new contract or they will be fired is EXACTLY the type of case they are designed to handle. |
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allnighters11
Joined: 05 Jul 2011
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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Well there are 2 foreign teachers in the school, we were told to sign a new contract or we have 30 days. I conctacted the labor board at the time to ask if this was legal and they said that maybe it was. To be honest they were very iffy on the whole thing.
Anyways I left it at the time, I was reasonably happy to stay another 6 months to save money. I have no been left go after 11 months working at the school.
I understand that it is quite easy to find another job but I was hoping to travel home in April with my savings. My flight money and bonus pay was very important to me so I can go back to college when I return home, that is why this has been such a large problem for me.
Again I know he hasn't visited the visa office at the time we signed new contracts so it seems to be a little grey area whether i have officialy been at the school for 5 or 11 months. |
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cert43
Joined: 17 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:30 am Post subject: |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 10:58 am Post subject: Re: Fired From Job, A little advice plese! |
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| allnighters11 wrote: |
I just got fired by my manger because it would be cheaper to have a Korean teacher in my place. The manager has advised me that the reason for firing is to make higher profits. He has also not given me 60 days notice. I have recorded our conversation and he has also admitted that what he is doing is "a little illegal".
I have contacted the labour board for some advice on what to do next but to be honest they have been next to useless, I'm just wondering does anyone have any advices for me exactly how I can dispute this. |
When a school is sold to a new owner, your original job comes to an end. Your original owner is no longer your sponsor and your E2 visa becomes invalid.
However, if you sign a new contract with a the new owner, it is a simple matter to transfer the remaining time on your E2 visa to the new owner of the school as your sponsor. This does not automatically extend your time under the visa.
Your new boss does not automatically owe you any benefits for your time working for the original owner, under the original contract. That detail should be spelled out in your new contract. If you do not arrange to have the new owner recognize and guarantee to pay your airfare and severance as if you were working continuously under the orignial contract, then you have little chance of collecting it.
The alternatives are:
1) The original owner pays you a pro rata amount to cover benefits earned while under the orignial contract, and benefits with the new owner begin with the new contract.
2) The original owner pays you nothing and your contract with the new owner promises to pay your benefits as if the contract was continuous.
Generally this would also entail recognition of such amounts as a liability of the school under the original owner and would transfer that liability to the new owner, which would lower the purchase price in the purchase and sale agreement between the original owner and new owner.
3) The original owner pays you nothing and you sign a contract with the new owner with benefits beginning with the new contract. In this case you start over and you do not get paid for severance or airfare for the time worked under the original contract.
Obviously this is not the way the teachers would like to handle the transfer. However, this happens quite often because teachers are unaware of what is happening and/or fail to negotiate or have a weak hand. If the school was having financial difficulties, the teachers have less chance of getting their benefits.
Now, the other question is whether or not your visa was ever legally transferred to the new owner. You may have been working illegally since the sale. However, since Immigration is not automatically notified of the sale, they would be unaware that it has occurred, so they wouldn't know that you are illegal.
Depending on the facts of the case, you could have a claim against the orignial owner, the new owner, both, or neither. |
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koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| The labor board does not investigate criminal acts. That is for the police and courts. They merely make rulings on labor disputes. Telling a teacher to sign a new contract or they will be fired is EXACTLY the type of case they are designed to handle. |
I never stated labor board was the ONLY party that could be involved here. You are only using some of my words to respond to instead of commenting on ALL off the message.
Bit of a strawman tactic. |
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