| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
minos
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:19 am Post subject: Received a notice to sign up for the national pension |
 |
|
My latest job doesn't pay pension(they pay for my health insurance through government's privately insured program). Save me the sermons, I have a very good job.
Should I sign up on my own and contribute to be perfectly legal?? I still have about 5 mil in uncollected pension was my PS job days. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:25 am Post subject: Re: Received a notice to sign up for the national pension |
|
|
| minos wrote: |
My latest job doesn't pay pension(they pay for my health insurance through government's privately insured program). Save me the sermons, I have a very good job.
Should I sign up on my own and contribute to be perfectly legal?? I still have about 5 mil in uncollected pension was my PS job days. |
IF you sign up to continue to pay into your pension (NPS) they (NHIC) will hunt you down for your back-payments to the NHIC as well. (private insurance doesn't cut and there is NO "government's privately insured program".
. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: Received a notice to sign up for the national pension |
|
|
| minos wrote: |
My latest job doesn't pay pension(they pay for my health insurance through government's privately insured program). Save me the sermons, I have a very good job.
Should I sign up on my own and contribute to be perfectly legal?? I still have about 5 mil in uncollected pension was my PS job days. |
Your reference to "government's privately insured program" is confusing here. Is your insurance part of the Korean National Health insurance program or is it private?
I'm guessing what you are referring to is the program that the Korean government has to allow individuals who are not employed (or otherwise not eligible for the national pension scheme) but are still eligible for health insurance, to enroll in the national health insurance program. This is essentially the "government's privately insured program."
So, it seems that your boss has enrolled you in this program in order to avoid enrolling you in the Pension program. There was a time years ago when this ploy worked well and would go undiscovered. These days the two programs share data allowing them to find individuals who are improperly enrolled in one but not the other. For millions of people it is not improper, so no problem. But for you it has become a problem.
So, you could just enroll yourself and pay yourself. You might do this if you feel that you are being compensated fairly and that your pay justifies you paying the entire 9% (you seem to indicate that you're from a country that allows you to get this back). Or you could mention to your boss that you got this letter and maybe he'll enroll you. He might pay his 4.5% or he might want you to take a pay cut. Or you could talk to the Pension office and let them go after your boss - which could lead to him paying penalties, higher taxes and cause animosity between you. You should, however, choose an option that let's you become "perfectly legal" and avoid penalties and other problems.
Apparently, since you have a very good job and want no lectures, you were aware of the requirements and the illegal nature of your arrangement when you took this job. Now you have to choose how to become legal and keep your good job going on good terms.
In reality when you sign yourself up for pension you will be enrolled in both programs in a way not intended for a full time employee such as yourself. The two agencies may not care once you're signed up and contributing to both, but it might still be not quite legal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| You guys are wasting your time. The OP clearly said "spare the sermons." He knows he's being cheated but yet he thinks his job is good. Let him live out his delusion. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| CentralCali wrote: |
| You guys are wasting your time. The OP clearly said "spare the sermons." He knows he's being cheated but yet he thinks his job is good. Let him live out his delusion. |
There are employers who will increase the pay level to compensate for the 4.5% employers share that the employee is losing. The main benefit for the employer in these circumstances is keeping the employee off the books - hence the enrollment in the national health insurance for nonworking individuals. Chances are that no income will be reported to the tax office either.
If an employer can keep the worker entirely off the books, he can also hide cash income and make his entire business look smaller. The personal tax savings for the owner from this is far greater than the small amount saved from not paying pension - which is why many employers using such tactics will go ahead and pay underground workers more than they would make legally.
So, as an aware participant in the scheme, the OP may not be losing at all. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Yeah, right. Until the appropriate government office does its job--and that's been known to happen. The "willing participant" ends up owing more than a little to the government.
As I said, it's a waste of time explaining something to "willing participants" in fraudulent activities.
Here's another fun idea that may have been tried: the "willing participant" took the increased salary, letting the employer ignore his obligations. At the end of the contract, the employee goes to the appropriate government office (say, Pension Office) and files a complaint because the employer did not pay into the employee's pension fund. That's a nifty trick that the employer probably didn't budget for either. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
minos
Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Received a notice to sign up for the national pension |
|
|
I'll enjoy my $40+ an hour job with low hours(none late evening) and no desk warming.The extra time allows me to work other non-esl jobs.
The NIHC did hit me with fees for a 6 month period I didn't pay health insurance(two separate jobs that lied to me and were short term).
| ttompatz wrote: |
| minos wrote: |
My latest job doesn't pay pension(they pay for my health insurance through government's privately insured program). Save me the sermons, I have a very good job.
Should I sign up on my own and contribute to be perfectly legal?? I still have about 5 mil in uncollected pension was my PS job days. |
IF you sign up to continue to pay into your pension (NPS) they (NHIC) will hunt you down for your back-payments to the NHIC as well. (private insurance doesn't cut and there is NO "government's privately insured program".
. |
It says privately insured individual on the letter. Yes, I have NHIC insurance and recieve cards from them every month. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My question is does your health insurance work? I mean have you visited a hospital or doctor and what happened? Have you been refused?
If you like the deal good for you but have you researched into the future.
Will your insurance actually work if you get seriously sick or hurt. Or will you be refused because the insurance company or hospital feels you got the wrong one or even it just does not cover it.
Are you prepared for maybe one day having the government coming forward and asking for back pay for public insurance and pension. Include the bonus of you having to pay ALL and your employer deciding not to pay their share, maybe with the bonus of "your fired". |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Skippy wrote: |
My question is does your health insurance work? I mean have you visited a hospital or doctor and what happened? Have you been refused?
If you like the deal good for you but have you researched into the future.
Will your insurance actually work if you get seriously sick or hurt. Or will you be refused because the insurance company or hospital feels you got the wrong one or even it just does not cover it.
Are you prepared for maybe one day having the government coming forward and asking for back pay for public insurance and pension. Include the bonus of you having to pay ALL and your employer deciding not to pay their share, maybe with the bonus of "your fired". |
| minos wrote: |
| It says privately insured individual on the letter. Yes, I have NHIC insurance and recieve cards from them every month. |
The OP has confirmed what I had guessed above: he does have the private insurance offered by the Korean Government to cover individuals who are not covered employees, self employed, independent contractors, or some other covered group in the regular program.
So, this insurance will work and pay just as the National Health insurance works for you Skippy and everyone else. It's just another way to sign up. Ttompatz was wrong on this one. There is such a program. Minos is eenrolled in it. I know of other teachers who were enrolled that way years ago.
It used to be a good way to get health insurance and avoid the Pension tax. It no longer works for avoiding the Pension since the Pension and Health Insurance are linked for verification purposes - although they still require separate registration, and some people can be eligible for one and exempt from the other. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
proverbs
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
i don't think all schools give the national pension.
one of the schools i worked for stated in their contract that i was a "temporary contracted service provider". i guess this was a loop hole in the system? there was a few people who questioned this and tried contacting the labor board, etc., but i don't think it went anywhere. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HarryMorgan
Joined: 02 May 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 9:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ontheway wrote: |
| It no longer works for avoiding the Pension since the Pension and Health Insurance are linked for verification purposes - although they still require separate registration, and some people can be eligible for one and exempt from the other. |
Separate registration, OK. But any more details on the bolded part? The last thing my boss wants to do is sign me up for the NHIC, but I've found the pension form waiting for me on my desk twice now... and I'm not sure if me turning it in legally exposes her to the fraud she has been committing since I arrived. Thus, making my working environment, in the immediate term, more difficult.
(Hope you're in good health, Tom). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| proverbs wrote: |
i don't think all schools give the national pension.
one of the schools i worked for stated in their contract that i was a "temporary contracted service provider". i guess this was a loop hole in the system? there was a few people who questioned this and tried contacting the labor board, etc., but i don't think it went anywhere. |
You can be an "Independent Contractor" on an E2 visa - it's legal and proper if carried out correctly. However, if you are so registered, you must sign yourself up for the National Pension and National Health Insurance to be legal. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 11:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| HarryMorgan wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| It no longer works for avoiding the Pension since the Pension and Health Insurance are linked for verification purposes - although they still require separate registration, and some people can be eligible for one and exempt from the other. |
Separate registration, OK. But any more details on the bolded part? The last thing my boss wants to do is sign me up for the NHIC, but I've found the pension form waiting for me on my desk twice now... and I'm not sure if me turning it in legally exposes her to the fraud she has been committing since I arrived. Thus, making my working environment, in the immediate term, more difficult.
|
Who keeps putting the Pension form on your desk? Which Pension form is it?
As to signing up for Pension, they will eventually check to see if you're signed up for the National Health insurance program (it takes a little time). My guess is that you are not be exempt from National Health Insurance and you (and your boss) will be caught if you sign up for Pension. However, if you are already receiving forms from the Pension Office itself, they may already be aware of you.
(If you are from South Africa on an E2, or over age 60, or already covered by an accepted alternate program, for example, you are exempt from Pension but NOT Health Insurance. IF you are working in Korea and not already covered under NIHC by some other means, you will not be exempt from Health Ins. Either your employer has to enroll you or you have to enroll yourself as an IC.)
Pension will cost your boss more than health insurance. What does your contract say? Are you an employee, independent contractor or is it unclear? Does your contract mention Pension and Health Insurance? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HarryMorgan
Joined: 02 May 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ontheway wrote: |
| HarryMorgan wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| It no longer works for avoiding the Pension since the Pension and Health Insurance are linked for verification purposes - although they still require separate registration, and some people can be eligible for one and exempt from the other. |
Separate registration, OK. But any more details on the bolded part? The last thing my boss wants to do is sign me up for the NHIC, but I've found the pension form waiting for me on my desk twice now... and I'm not sure if me turning it in legally exposes her to the fraud she has been committing since I arrived. Thus, making my working environment, in the immediate term, more difficult.
|
Who keeps putting the Pension form on your desk? Which Pension form is it?
As to signing up for Pension, they will eventually check to see if you're signed up for the National Health insurance program (it takes a little time). My guess is that you are not be exempt from National Health Insurance and you (and your boss) will be caught if you sign up for Pension. However, if you are already receiving forms from the Pension Office itself, they may already be aware of you.
(If you are from South Africa on an E2, or over age 60, or already covered by an accepted alternate program, for example, you are exempt from Pension but NOT Health Insurance. IF you are working in Korea and not already covered under NIHC by some other means, you will not be exempt from Health Ins. Either your employer has to enroll you or you have to enroll yourself as an IC.)
Pension will cost your boss more than health insurance. What does your contract say? Are you an employee, independent contractor or is it unclear? Does your contract mention Pension and Health Insurance? |
I'm American. My employer keeps putting a NPS form on my desk. I'm aware of the scheme they're pulling and I'm presently waiting for new documents before I make a move. My contract states that I'm an "employee," not a private contractor. I figure turning in the pension form would not be good for them, but the "principal" appears to have her head up her butt, which I assume is why they put the form on my desk again on Tuesday. I'm the only western employee there, by the way, so I don't always have good support in these matters. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
escarole
Joined: 06 Nov 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
HarryMorgan, how many full time employees work at your place of employment?
I've heard that if an employer has less than 5 full time employees they are not legally required to enroll their employees in NHIC or NPS.
I believe if that were the case then they would have you on the books as an independent contractor (if at all...)
That being said I don't actually know if there is any such exception.
Maybe someone reading here will be able to clarify. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
