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what happened with the EPiK/GEPiK program? what's it mean?
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koreatimes

Joined: 07 Jun 2011

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:44 pm Post subject:

Quote:

but trying to get parents not to blow there money on hagwons by bringing in NET's into schools

Hagwons don't only teach English. Students also go to taekwondo or soccer practice, piano lessons, some even go to art classes.

I don't know where you got this association between public schools doing "something" to prevent hagwons from getting students. Maybe with afterschool programs, but during the day the students have to be in school anyway. They don't have the choice to go to a hagwon.

Quote:

Public schools are assigned students by the local office of education

Perhaps with older students, but if a family moves next door to a school, they have to take their child to another school because of some assignment? That's absurd. I worked at one school where other schools would come visit. There were about 5-10 different schools and the students lived closer to those schools. I don't agree that they wouldn't have a student enroll in a school they lived closer to. It's a ridiculous notion to have students ping ponging back and forth when there is a school closer to them.

jvalmer

Joined: 06 Jun 2003

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:21 pm Post subject:

koreatimes wrote:

jvalmer wrote:

but trying to get parents not to blow there money on hagwons by bringing in NET's into schools

I apologize that I assumed when you say hagwons you don't mean english hagwons and study rooms.

I'm talking about english hagwons and other cram hagwons. The government wants parents to curtail their spending on academic hagwons and redirect the spending to other things that are more beneficial to the economy. By bringing NET's into the english classroom the government is hoping that parents will reduce their spending on english hagwons. English hagwons and other cram hagwons are the targets of the government, hence all these regulations on closing times and inspections on academic hagwons.

koreatimes wrote:

jvalmer wrote:

Public schools are assigned students by the local office of education

It all depends on the local district. Yes, it's very possible for a student to live next to a school yet have to go to a school further away in the same district (in Seoul it's the same gu). Even siblings one year apart can be assigned separate schools. It depends on the district, some will assign students by lottery, some by location. But it's all up to the local authorities how schools are allotted students. Most schools have little say on the students they get. However there are a small number of specialty schools that students can apply to get into, mostly at the high school level.

jvalmer

Joined: 06 Jun 2003

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:30 pm Post subject:

koreatimes wrote:

That's absurd. I worked at one school where other schools would come visit. There were about 5-10 different schools and the students lived closer to those schools.

Again depends on the district. I haven't seen middle schools go around elementary schools to advertise their schools. But high schools will go around to middle schools to advertise their schools. Depending on how a district assigns students to high schools, but in some, 3rd grade middle school students tell their homeroom teachers which high schools they want to attend and the middle school submits a list of students to the high school. Then it all gets approved by the local board. In other districts you are placed in a school depending on location, or it's a lottery.

koreatimes wrote:

I don't agree that they wouldn't have a student enroll in a school they lived closer to. It's a ridiculous notion to have students ping ponging back and forth when there is a school closer to them.

You don't have to agree, but it's just how some districts do things. If parents have a problem with it, they'd complain about it and elect someone else to head the ministry of education in that jurisdiction.

Also, there is no ping-ponging, once the student is assigned a school they are in that school until they graduate. Unless they move out of district or request a transfer which needs to be approved.

koreatimes

Joined: 07 Jun 2011

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 7:10 pm Post subject:

Quote:

I apologize that I assumed when you say hagwons you don't mean english hagwons and study rooms.

Yea, that's what I meant. That's why I mentioned not just English. Are your reading skills ok?

Quote:

The government wants parents to curtail their spending on academic hagwons and redirect the spending to other things that are more beneficial to the economy.

I don't agree with this, seeing that hagwon owners work with people running for office to get them elected. I don't think what you are experiencing is representaional of Korea on a whole.

Quote:

By bringing NET's into the english classroom the government is hoping that parents will reduce their spending on english hagwons.

Your logic is all backwards. They are cutting NET's, not adding them.

Quote:

You don't have to agree, but it's just how some districts do things.

Changing it to "some" makes it more correct. You were saying it as if it were not just some, but a standard. That is what I wasn't agreeing to.

jvalmer

Joined: 06 Jun 2003

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:27 pm Post subject:

koreatimes wrote:

Quote:

I apologize that I assumed when you say hagwons you don't mean english hagwons and study rooms.

Yea, that's what I meant. That's why I mentioned not just English. Are your reading skills ok?

No need to be insulting. Where is this attitude coming from?

koreatimes wrote:

Quote:

The government wants parents to curtail their spending on academic hagwons and redirect the spending to other things that are more beneficial to the economy.

I don't agree with this, seeing that hagwon owners work with people running for office to get them elected. I don't think what you are experiencing is representaional of Korea on a whole.

Quote:

By bringing NET's into the english classroom the government is hoping that parents will reduce their spending on english hagwons.

Your logic is all backwards. They are cutting NET's, not adding them.

That's a political issue. They are not cutting NET's in other regions like in Gyeonggi, at least not yet.

One of the reasons NET's were brought into public classrooms was to encourage reduced spending on english hagwons. But a combination of politics, economic changes and other factors have resulted in GEPIK cutting the number of NET's.

http://koreajoongangdaily.joinsmsn.com/news/article/article.aspx?aid=2906829
http://www.mysinchew.com/node/6434
http://blog.educationusa.or.kr/2010/01/south-koreas-education-policy-keeping-hagwons-at-bay/

koreatimes

Joined: 07 Jun 2011

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:55 pm Post subject:

Quote:

No need to be insulting. Where is this attitude coming from?

Because you ignored what I stated and replied as if I stated the opposite.

You are also changing your position. You state an absolute, and when I call you out on it you change your wording to include "some". Now, in your next comment, you do the same type of thing. Here, I'll show you.

Quote:

They are not cutting NET's in other regions like in Gyeonggi, at least not yet.

Look at the title of the thread, that's what the "G" means, Gyeonggido. Again, you are replying with your own agenda with disregard of posters and the intent of the thread.

I was commenting on Gyeonggido. When you turn around and reply with another area, that is in a way off topic, and there was no way for me to have known that you mean something other than Gyeonggido. That is what I was referring to.

Also, there were cuts in teachers in Seoul and I saw some brief comments about Epik earlier this year. I don't know how that got resolved though.

Quote:

One of the reasons NET's were brought into public classrooms was to encourage reduced spending on english hagwons.

Why do you persist in misrepresenting information?

Did you even read the article?

"Chung Doo-un, a GNP lawmaker and a close confidant of President Lee, proposed banning cram schools for elementary school students from providing classes after 9 p.m., and for middle and high school students after 10 p.m."

This doesn't have to do with NET's. It has to do with the curfew. Read the article. Instead of just the first few sentences, it might also help to look at the end:

�It�s crucial that we compensate people who report unlawful hagwon operation.�

That is what they are fighting against, not NET's in hagwons.

The second link says nothing about fighting hagwons hiring NET's. It only focuses on more education in the classroom, which doesn't logically negate or preclude hagwons from hiring NET's.

The third link supports the first one.

�Simply put, our goals are to enable students to be home by 10 P.M. rather than in cram schools, and to help them become rational thinkers rather than receptacles of rote knowledge.�

It isn't saying that the government is trying to lower the number of students going to hagwons. It is referring to a curfew. This is a big difference. If the public schools made students come in at 3am or not leave until 6pm, then you might get the same activity by the government on the public schools. That doesn't mean they don't want teachers in either situation. They simply want to place limits on the total number of hours.

This is very different than what you are purporting, which is false and not accurate.

Last edited by koreatimes on Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:49 pm; edited 1 time in total

jvalmer

Joined: 06 Jun 2003

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:16 pm Post subject:

koreatimes wrote:

That is what they are fighting against, not NET's in hagwons.

The second link says nothing about fighting hagwons hiring NET's. It only focuses on more education in the classroom, which doesn't logically negate or preclude hagwons from hiring NET's.

I never said anything about hagwons hiring NET's. I said NET's are being placed in public schools to battle academic hagwons.

koreatimes wrote:

Quote:

They are not cutting NET's in other regions like in Gyeonggi, at least not yet.

Look at the title of the thread, that's what the "G" means, Gyeonggido. Again, you are replying with your own agenda with disregard of posters and the intent of the thread.

You do realize EPiK also places NET's in the rest of the country too? The title includes GEPiK/EPiK.

- ...Lee Myung-bak's drive to revamp public English education and reduce spending on private learning.

- Under his leadership, the Ministry of Education and the ruling Grand National Party are set to release a �Road Map to Ease Private Education Costs�

- a think tank run by the ruling Grand National Party, hosted a debate titled �The Fight Against Private Education�

- The essence of Lee�s education policies is �normalizing public education,� which he believes can be achieved by quelling Korea�s obsession with private education. During his presidential campaign, he pledged to build a nation that will enable people to get to university and land jobs without resorting to after-school classes in private institutions.

- �Getting rid of private education is crucial for reducing the financial burden on lower-income households but it seems hagwon have a strong lobbying capacity,� Lee said at a meeting with ministers on June 23.

How can you not say reducing Koreans' spending on hagwons isn't at least part of the goal?

My statements on the reason about NET's being put in public schools is highly speculative. But to reduce spending on academic hagwons is very likely part of the reason. The government isn't spending money on NET's solely to improve student's english. It's not about hagwons hiring NET's, it's about getting rid of hagwons.

Look, if you don't believe the government wants to ultimately rid Korea of most academic hagwons and the hiring of NET's wasn't part of the plan, go ahead. But I think it's a little naive to think that.

koreatimes

Joined: 07 Jun 2011

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:54 pm Post subject:

Quote:

My statements on the reason about NET's being put in public schools is highly speculative.

I agree, it is HIGHLY SPECULATIVE. I am going to stop there because if you started there, I wouldn't have raised any objection. You clearly stated one thing, then changed it to "some", and now you are admitting it isn't even noted anywhere. You are speculating.

koreatimes

Joined: 07 Jun 2011

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:57 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Look, if you don't believe the government wants to ultimately rid Korea of most academic hagwons and the hiring of NET's wasn't part of the plan, go ahead. But I think it's a little naive to think that.

This part addresses NET's in public schools, and it is a different thing altogether. If this was true, then why is GEPIK cutting the number of NET's then? Why was it mentioned before that no one is hiring high school teachers and current ones will probably be moved to elementary or middle schools?

If they were going to do as you stated, then I would think they would be hiring more teachers, not less. Can you explain why less NET's are being hired?

HELICIS

Joined: 15 Sep 2011
Location: USA

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:59 pm Post subject:

morningsoju wrote:

They don't need NET's, if that's what you mean, but they will always need Korean English teachers. Not sure of the details, but they are cutting back on NET's, so expect to see a lot less NET's. I know when I first worked with EPIK, 7 years ago, I had to go to 2 schools and was only 1 of 2 NET's in a town of 50,000.

I imagine they'll make cuts all across the board soon. I'm near the end of my 5th contract, when I first started there were about 5 EPIK teachers in the city of 150,00 I live in. Now there are more than 50. It's pretty damn expensive to bring all these NT's here, I suspect EPIK will get cut to the bone after the 2012 school year.

koreatimes

Joined: 07 Jun 2011

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:04 am Post subject:

Quote:

I suspect EPIK will get cut to the bone after the 2012 school year.

And there really is no "poor" area. You have cities with 2 areas, poor area and richer area. It just might not be as rich as Gangnam in Seoul. Those people in the richer parts of the rural areas will DEFINITELY want to pay for teachers. If no teachers (NET's) are present at the public school, there will be more incentive for hagwon owners to hire NET's.

Those with money will find a way. Those without will lose out.

jvalmer

Joined: 06 Jun 2003

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:11 am Post subject:

koreatimes wrote:

Quote:

Like I said before, it's a combination of politics and economic factors.

The elected Gyeonggi board currently has a Minjudang majority and were never too keen on hiring that many NET's in the first place. And the current economic situation has resulted in cuts in funding, and NET's are easy to get rid of with virtually no political consquences. Hurt foreigners, they go home.

The government in the past did actually ban hagwons outright in the 80's, but all that did was force private education underground. If they could without losing all that tax revenue of all the spending parents do on education I'm sure they would love to ban hagwons again. The government would love to see that money being spent elsewhere instead of being swallowed up by private education.

Last edited by jvalmer on Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:13 am; edited 1 time in total

morningsoju

Joined: 20 Aug 2011
Location: Seoul, Korea

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:12 am Post subject:

i should show these posts on Dave's to my Debate class

koreatimes

Joined: 07 Jun 2011

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:43 am Post subject:

Quote:

The government would love to see that money being spent elsewhere instead of being swallowed up by private education.

I don't think that it is always that one-sided. Those in power and have money will get private tutoring for their child. That's just the way the system is. It doesn't have to be underground unless it's poorer people trying to even the "score" (literally and figuratively).

With the internet, a ban on hagwons wouldn't work. I cannot forsee a downfall of hagwons.

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