Korean Job Discussion Forums

[haopengyou]

I am a licensed American teacher, ten years of experience teaching business skills in the U.S. (accounting, computer, business English) with an online TEFL from UCLA, and 11 years of experience teaching in China - kindergarten to senior citizens but mostly teen and uni students. I do have a couple of years of experience teaching primary school students. I am 51. I am looking at a job in the public schools. Am I going to have trouble because of age? I am a career teacher and am seeking a stable job so that I can gain experience in a second culture in preparation for a masters degree. I am assuming that public schools are going to be more stable than private? I am seeking a job that pays at least 2.2 million with free housing.

From the posts I have read and the ads, it seems that most recruiters are all seeking to find people for the same pool of jobs - at least in the public school sector...so does it matter which recruiter I use?

[Rhodesian]

I'd be interested to know how you get on. I know someone who was politely told that they couldn't help by a recruitment agency because EPIK aparrently advised they are looking for those below 50.

[sirius black]

Obviously age will limit your chances to some extent but I think there are plenty of employers who would hire you. I've seen plenty of teachers who are 40+ out here. In fact, I think you'd stand a very good chance (even better than most) of landing a uni job. Many want a master's but there are many who would gladly take you. Unis like to hire older than usual anyway.

Over 30 seems to be what they prefer from what I've seen and heard. Problem with the uni jobs is you have to be here to interview. Maybe some will do a skype interview.

There are some private schools that cater to the adult learner and I think that would be a fit. Some hogwons need teachers, there's always a need and you'll find hogwons who will hire you.

Plenty of international schools as well I would think.

I don't think it will be as difficult as some would think. Recruiters are naturally gonna shy away from older folks as they do ethnic minorities but plenty of both work here.

[seala70]

I have two English teacher friends here in Korea that are older...one is an ethnic minority at age 41 and the other is 53 years old...both have been with EPIK and both had their contracts renewed for a second year. So, it doesn't seem to be a problem.

[northway]

If you're certified with all that experience, you should be able to find something. That said, are you dead set on Korea, or would you consider other countries? Taiwan's public school program only accepts certified teachers and offers similar benefits, and I've heard age isn't as much of an issue there. It might be worth considering if you have difficulty finding anything in Korea.

[ttompatz]

[creeper1]

Take a look at international schools as well. ALthough for secondary level, the subject that you teach "business skills" might not be in much demand, it can't hurt to keep a look out.

[haopengyou]

Thanks for the advice and words of hope! I have been teaching in China since 1998 so am a little familiar with jobs here. I periodically try with international schools. Some have said directly that they don't hire over 40 yo. With some I have observed that none of their teachers seem to be much older than 30. The typical uni job in China pays less than US$ 1,100 per month and is usually only paid 9 months a year. There is no significant medical insurance offered with it, just some accident insurance. Housing is hit and miss - often only a small, no-star hotel size dorm room offered as living accommodations. There is a new crop of jobs appearing in China that pays more money - $2K or more - but they usually are teaching children, and often over the weekends. I have such a job and am teaching 31 classes a week on three sites - grades 1, 3, 5, 6 and 7 but the pay is only for less than 9 months, and I have to pay tax as well -- accommodations not included. I have noticed that it is not uncommon in Korea for the teaching load to only be 20-22 classes each week with weekends off, more than US$2K per month for me with 11 or even 12 months of salary, decent medical insurance and retirement even (if I stay long enough) settlement allowance and an annual bonus. In short, there may be some seemingly "nice" positions in China but the average situation in S Korea is much nicer than the average in China by far. I will check with Taiwan - thanks for mentioning it. One of the reasons why I am looking to Korea is that because of the need for FT and the long history some recruiters have with the system, schools in S Korea will hire with a Skype interview. With Japan and Taiwan, most schools will not hire unless they have an interview in person with the candidate. I am not in a position to drop a few hundred $ each time someone wants to interview me. My objective is to have a job that gives me $2K AFTER rent, 11-12 months a year, with a strong preference to mon to fri job and 20-22 classes a week. Even though they are only 35 min classes, I am dieing with 31 classes a week...but then again, teaching first grade and not being allowed to use Chinese to communicate with the student to explain rules, etc is a new thing for me and is VERY tiring.

[ttompatz]

Let's dispel a few myths for you.

EPIK and most other public school jobs are, by-and-large, off the table for you. You are older than their cut-off age for new applicants.

Even if you were to find a public school job (GEPIK is cutting hundreds of PS positions this term) you will still be working a 40 hour week (M-F, 8:30-4:30), even if you are only in front of the class for 22 periods per week.
You will be expected to remain at your desk for the remainder of your work-day.

You seem typical of most Americans on here who look at the base salary instead of the net savings and quality of life when they compare jobs in different economies. BAD MOVE.
You may earn $2000 per month here but your savings will be less than 1/2 due to the costs of living (there is more to life than rent). How does $10/kilo for hamburger sound? You prefer $10/kilo for chicken? $3/kilo for rice. $5/ kilo for potatoes.

A government school job in Taiwan by comparison, paying certified teachers about 80k TWD per month, 12 month contracts, holidays off with pay, medical, PLUS housing, air, family relocation assistance, etc. will allow a comfortable lifestyle and savings on the order of $1500/mo.

The NET program in HK is similar.

Even in Thailand, a decent international, bilingual or EP school will pay salaries on the order of $2000-3000/mo on a 12 month contract (18-22 classes per week) and the cost of living is MUCH cheaper (unless of course the bright lights of Bangkok nights attract you) and allow savings on the order of $12000-20000 per year.

If you eyes are set on Korea then get used to the idea of working in a language academy, 30 classes per week, small room for housing, unprofessional work environment, no medical and issues over pay, severance, air, visa, etc.

There is a reason a lot of people are looking to make the jump from Korea to China (or just about anyplace else on the planet).

Good luck to you either way.

.

[tideout]

I know someone here who's over 50 and is finishing her 3rd year at a HS. She could resign as far as the school's concerned but, as noted, those positions are on the way out.

At the last EPIK/SMOE orientation I went to only 1 or two people out of 250 or so people were over the age of 40 - this is different than a few years ago by the way. Maybe just luck of the draw but there seemed to be a clear practice of them hiring just recent grads.

I guess it's also anecdotal, but a number of people have commented about how one district in particular seems to have obviously higher levels of "older" NET's as well as minority NET's. The recently graduated, pretty blonde or late twenties gyopo's is likely to end up in one the high end parts of town.

I think if you're over 40 in the public school system you'll increasingly get more of the 2nd class treatment and be more likely to end up in the outer limits of the district. Actual teaching abilities, of course, having nothing to do with this.

[schwa]

Hiring practice is stacked against older applicants to EPIK. Not impossible, but essentially limited to "right place at the right time" & probably in less desirable locations.

Anecdotally, there are definitely a few older foreign teachers in public schools (hey, I'm one) but most of them have been "grandfathered" since joining before pickier conditions came into play.

[The Floating World]

If it is lower ammount fo teaching hours per week you are after, you want to move to Shanghai imo.

Longman pay 13.5k rmb for 16 teaching hours and 20 office hours per week and offer overtime. Wall St were recently offering 16k rmb + minus housing (need 3k for housing) or maybe it was with housing, not sure... then there's Web, EF etc.

Save more money in korea though unless you got ot in one of the above jobs.

If it is (and it is certainly always my aim sir, so no judgement here) the lowest ammount of teaching hour for the most savings you're after I think if you can't get an epik job - not impossible- and it;s korea you;re interested in and you think you can handle really and I mean really bratty youngsters - a hakwan gig an be just the ticket.

I worked for one last yr and although my contract was for 30 hrs per week and even though we had a decent ammount of students (180) - the schedule was not full and in reality my teaching hours never surpassed 22 per week and their was zero prep needed as it was all fancy books and cd rom.

Otherwise as a licensed teacher I honestly do not think that a college / uni job would be off of your options list either, though the main hiring period will be around feb I believe. Harder to get but I have met teachers without masters degrees living in more rural areas who were around your age bracket or older with college / uni jobs. Though they had got the jobs through personal networking through being in country.

I don't think epik is impossible for you if you have your sigts set on Korea and have met teachers at and close to your age bracket at orientation for the 3 epik schools I have worked at. They were in rural areas though, but maybe that's not a big deal for you anyway. And the housing is way better in those areas anyhow.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket of course and sniff out a few decent paying, easier load hakwan jobs too and uni jobs.

Korea does pay more than China but the disparity in the ammount you can save (and I'm only talking Shanghai here) between shanghai and Korea is shrinking. On Longman's 16 hrs for 13.5k without o/t I calculated I would save about 800k - 900k Korean won a month. On my last hakwan saalry of 2.3mil won I could save around 1.2 - 1.3mil on a normal no frills but certainly not frugal lifestyle.

Then there are the international schools (the one in busan was recently hiring) in Korea that don't pay amazing (around 2.2mil) but give you better vacation time than epik or a hakwan.

Truth is at 51 and as a licensed teacher you have plenty of option in Korea and as others have pointed out - at international schools and public school net programmes in other countries too. Certain new campuses of american university franchises in Dubai and Saudi Arabia are currently offering 3000 usd plus a month.

Now at your age, being in Korea first to job hunt will be a huge plus. But I will assert that there are plenty of employers in Korea that would see your age as a plus as it will infer stability and maturity to them.

Anyway, yeah you're a licensed teacher with tons of teaching experience - you'll have no problems getting a decent job in SK or other places!

[haopengyou]

Thanks! I always appreciate the honest and candor of the folks on this forum. I think that is one of the reasons why it has flourished and continues to be a useful source of info for thousands of people.

Yes, I understand that the cost of living in the different countries in Asia varies greatly. The $2,000 (after rent) figure was chosen as a simple way to give you all an idea of my target. $2,000 per month after taxes and rent in any of these countries will be more than adequate to allow me to meet my goals, though I realize that $2,000 after taxes and rent in China is probably, effectively, the highest salary. If you are looking in China, however, keep in mind that the cost of living is going up quite rapidly here. 3 years ago, a bottle of pretty good cooking oil was about 45 rmb, a pound of boneless chicken 7 rmb. Now the same bottle of cooking oil is about 70 rmb and chicken is about 17 rmb. There is also no "tax free" zone here, though I have heard that in the past few years you may be able to reclaim the tax you paid on the first year or two of income - but don't expect to get any help if you want to do this.

As I read and digested your posts I realized that my basic need right now is just for a change. It is likely that in half a dozen years I will return to China or go to some country in SE Asia but right now I would like to get out and look around a bit. I am also contemplating a masters degree that might require some competency in a second foreign language. Living in another country would help make that a possibility. I also need a higher salary than I receive now to be able to afford the education. I may $2,000 per month now but only for 8.5 months a year.

[chamank]

How was teaching in China?

[haopengyou]

Teaching in China...how many books would you like me to fill? A few years back the government created an agency to regulate foreign experts in China. This has proved to be quite helpful in that there is a minimum wage in each region for teachers...contracts now look almost identical to each other...still, most principals outside of the public schools are business people and not educators, and at this point, my guess is that 95% of the teachers in China are working either in the universities are in the private school market.

Public universities in China pay anywhere from 4K rmb to 8K rmb with 5-6 being much, much more common than anything higher. Usually a dorm or apartment is included but not always, and you can not always assume that you will be able to live in the conditions provided. Public unis usually do a decent job of class load management. 20 classes per week is considered standard here. I make 50% more than average but I teach 31 classes each week, and I teach children - I also teach in 3 different schools a week and ride my e-bike about 30 km per day to the places where I teach.

Teaching children anywhere will give you more $$. The children in China are not easy to teach. I have heard of difficulties of teaching Korean children - I see the same in China. They are very spoiled, easy to get angry and be violent with each other and with teachers, even at the first grade level. If you are teaching in a situation where you have to issue grades, do not assume that the low grade you issue a student will stand. It is likely that the administration will change it without telling you. The students are fully aware of this and will behave accordingly in class.

I have had 4 full time jobs in 13 years and a number of part time jobs. With many of the part time jobs and one of the full time jobs I was hired purely based on my resume - there was no interview or practice teaching at all, no face to face. The other jobs required an interview but they were not teaching interviews at all. I have never had to take a test as part of an application process or present a lesson.

International schools pay well, but from what I have observed and been unofficially told, they are mostly hiring people who are under 40 now. Private middle schools often pay around 10K per month while private kindergartens pay up to 16K per month. There is usually a medical insurance policy thrown in there somewhere but it is not a significant policy. Pay is only for the time you work, though spring festival ( about 4 weeks) is usually paid time though summer vacation is not. Most schools do not know how to utilize a foreign teacher.