|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
 Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:06 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| Quote: |
| if you would actually impart some of your supposed wisdom rather than just belittle me for being inexperienced. |
I already stated what you could do (which is what I would do, but I am not forcing myself on you with an application form before communicating with you). I stated that you could do a demo lesson or interview first. You shouldn't have to fill out an application. Online applications are one thing, because they want to filter out a lot of people who aren't qualified and probably don't have a degree yet.
Read my posts instead of being defensive. I can already tell you won't get far in Korea. Korean employers don't like teachers who talk back, especially after they have willingly given themselves up during a slave application process.
| Quote: |
| I've concluded that, given the options I see available to me |
You typed EPIK how many times? I see 6 in the post and also SMOE. You really looked at all options? I was kind of the same way with the JET program in Japan. I knew nothing about schools in Japan. After graduating, I told a Japanese teacher I was going to work at a language school and he warned me, but I knew nothing what that meant. I had to get burned in Japan, and then I realized it could also happen at places like CDI in Korea, which is why I didn't take their job offer. I didn't go with EPIK, SMOE, or GEPIK offers either. I specifically talked with owners of schools and found a match which DIDN'T require me to apply, skip, or give up choices.
Again, if you want to give up these freedoms, I have no right to stop you. I was trying to warn and help you. If you take that as rude, well then you are in for a bigger rude awakening when you realize the reality of giving up certain freedoms to choose where you want to work.
The cost will be rectified by leaving the country, getting new documents, and then going back to the drawing board where you are already at now. I am done, it's your life. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
I've asked it many, many times before, but I will try again for some reason:
OP, would you mind terribly explaining WHY exactly you are so set on Seoul? You say,
| Quote: |
| there's something to be said for knowing what you want & being persistent about it. |
So, OK then, what is it that you want that ONLY Seoul can offer? Have you ever been there? Do you understand what it's actually like? Since I'm pretty sure the answer to these questions is no, what is it you THINK you're going to find there that, say, Daejeon or Gwangju couldn't possibly offer?
I live a 36 minute [33 on a good day!] KTX ride from Seoul Station. I have been all around Seoul many times. As far as I can tell, approximately 65% of Seoul non-work activities revolve around wandering through gigantic, extremely similar department stores and malls [I'Park! Coex! AK! Lotte! Hyundai! Shinsegae!] and spending around 30% more than in the West to buy remarkably unfashionable clothing and/or haggling for at least 10 minutes to bring down a 67% markup on anything with a power cord/USB jack.
Then there is the 25% that is spent in overpriced and overdecorated restaurants, ranging from 20% markup for anything vaguely Korean to 50% and up if it's even remotely Western [hello Kraze Burger!]
When walking between the giant malls/markets/shopping strips and either an overpriced restaurant or your job, you then get to pass several dozen of the thousands of identical painted concrete tower blocks in which about 75% of Seoulites make their homes. They are so identical they need giant numbers on the side so you remember which one is yours.
It's not Tokyo or Shanghai or Bangkok, not by a long shot.
For the remaining 10% of non-work time not spent eating bad food or buying expensive junk, you have a choice of:
1)Overcrowded and generally mediocre 'parks', IF you are lucky enough to live sort of close to one; if not, expect to add 25-40 minutes on a train to commute to Namsan, Yeouido, the 'Forest' park, SNU's campus area or the Olympic site,
2)Dull, ugly, generally small museums with horrible exhibitions and hardly anything non-Korean in their collections,
3)Palaces which look amazingly similar to non-Seoul palaces everywhere else in the country,
4)An 'arts' scene that is remarkably amateurish and ill-formed, regardless if you are looking for symphonies, dance, painting, opera, theater or anything besides 'traditional Korean _______', which needless to say can be found EVERYWHERE ELSE in Korea.
For the privilege of living in this supposed GLOBAL CITY, you will receive considerably less money, have a much worse apartment, and have to spend much more of what little you get on the basics of living. And of course there's a strong likelihood you will end up at the back end of one of the train lines, at least 45 minutes from whatever it is you think you NEED to be in Seoul to obtain. Conditions that have led more than one prior poster on this board to run within weeks of arrival.
I'm quite curious to know why you are so set on Seoul, why it's worth the cost and the prospect of a lousy school/job/co-teacher. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ohhellojanie
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area, California
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| koreatimes wrote: |
Read my posts instead of being defensive. I can already tell you won't get far in Korea. Korean employers don't like teachers who talk back, especially after they have willingly given themselves up during a slave application process.
|
Trust me, I am trying to read and understand your responses but it's quite difficult to do so when you are not communicating clearly or answering half of my questions before resorting to petty attacks. I can tell from a look at your profile that you've been teaching for a while and I'm sure you have a lot to offer in the way of advice-giving, but you aren't helping anyone by making out newbies like me to be totally ignorant, lording your experience over me, but at the same time not actually offering a whole lot in the way of solid information, relaying specific experiences, or directing me to useful resources. Instead your claim of helping me is coming off more as a pretty potent mixture of bitterness at your own negative experience/s, and hindsight bias.
| koreatimes wrote: |
| he warned me, but I knew nothing what that meant. |
What? Again, unclear - what were his warnings, specifically? Why was he so against language schools? How specifically were you mistreated in Japan, and what reason/s do you have to believe that I will inevitably get burned in Korea because of the way I have chosen to apply?
| koreatimes wrote: |
| I stated that you could do a demo lesson or interview first. You shouldn't have to fill out an application. |
Okay - now that you've finally clarified that you're referring to contacting individual schools directly (via which avenue/s - Craigslist, non-governmental agencies, the job board here.. etc, I have no idea since you didn't say)... that's great for you that you were able to find a match while forgoing any governmental programs and their agendas. I have heard of many people going this route, & I have considered it (albeit briefly) but have chosen against it for my first time. Yes, I realize there are shady public schools out there, and shady recruiters. I just figured that the process of applying through a governmental program like EPIK may be a bit more clear-cut and less daunting to someone who is looking for a job in Korea for the first time (indeed, my first full-time job out of university). Maybe this will turn out to be a horrible misconception that will require me to make the kinds of sacrifices you're alluding to simply to have a job at all, maybe not. And if I do get rejected as part of the "filtering" process you describe, or I get offered a contract that I don't end up agreeing to, that's fine. I can always just find a job here in the States, reconsider my options regarding EFL, do a few more informational interviews with people who are working abroad in Korea, etc before I reapply - and yes, reconsider forgoing EPIK entirely.
And really - I could care less what you think you can tell about me from first instigating a message board argument and then accusing me of being defensive just because I stick up for myself against someone who calls a stranger a "dog" over the Internet. I never came at you with antagonism before you started with the name-calling. If anyone, employer or not, expects me to just take that bent over, well, then I guess I am applying for the wrong job. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ohhellojanie
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area, California
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
Modernist,
Firstly, I appreciate your response - I need to hear these things about Seoul. However, it doesn't sway my decision to apply for a job there. The short answer is, I have connections to Seoul that I don't have elsewhere in Korea. I have never been to South Korea, but my mom's family as well as family friends all live in Seoul, and seeing as it would be my first time living more than an hour's distance from home, it would be really comforting to be in close proximity to family and friends. It may be a cheesy answer, but it's all I have and I'm thinking it can't be an uncommon sentiment. It's not about what Seoul can offer as a city - I know that cities everywhere have their individual charms, and I don't think that I overly idealize Seoul, and I certainly don't mean to give anyone the idea that I'd look down upon working elsewhere, I just really want to experience life in Seoul, where my mom spent her early adult life, relatively close to people I know. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Good luck. Sounds like you are a gyopo, but you are going the E2 route with a vengeance. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ohhellojanie
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area, California
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| koreatimes wrote: |
| Good luck. Sounds like you are a gyopo, but you are going the E2 route with a vengeance. |
Nope, just a hapa, born and raised in America, but nice job generalizing! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ohhellojanie wrote: |
| The short answer is, I have connections to Seoul that I don't have elsewhere in Korea. I have never been to South Korea, but my mom's family as well as family friends all live in Seoul, and seeing as it would be my first time living more than an hour's distance from home, it would be really comforting to be in close proximity to family and friends. |
Do you really want to live close to 'family' and all the obligations that may come with it? It's pretty boring spending too much time with aunts and uncles... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ohhellojanie
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area, California
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:25 am Post subject: |
|
|
| jvalmer wrote: |
| ohhellojanie wrote: |
| The short answer is, I have connections to Seoul that I don't have elsewhere in Korea. I have never been to South Korea, but my mom's family as well as family friends all live in Seoul, and seeing as it would be my first time living more than an hour's distance from home, it would be really comforting to be in close proximity to family and friends. |
Do you really want to live close to 'family' and all the obligations that may come with it? It's pretty boring spending too much time with aunts and uncles... |
Haha, I guess that's true, but it's fine. I've never spent time with them in person so being near them is actually pretty important to me. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
koreatimes
Joined: 07 Jun 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ohhellojanie wrote: |
| koreatimes wrote: |
| Good luck. Sounds like you are a gyopo, but you are going the E2 route with a vengeance. |
Nope, just a hapa, born and raised in America, but nice job generalizing! |
That bars you from getting an F visa? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ohhellojanie
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area, California
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 2:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| No, I can't get an F-visa, unfortunately. The circumstances are quite complicated but it's not possible. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tideout
Joined: 12 Dec 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
ohhellojanie,
Welcome to Dave's Korean Job Discussion Forum. Unfortunately it may be one of the most unhappy forums on the internet. When posting even the most benign post, question or complaint, remember that all it takes is a drop of blood to bring out piranha like behavior.
Because of the size of the ESL market it draws a lot of people of all backgrounds, strengths and issues. Although it looks westernized, Korea's culture can be extremely difficult for people to navigate or even survive for some. There are some fools here who give foreigners a bad rap, but there are also some very well intended people who've been burned. In any case, it resists simple categorizing for me. Sorry if I've bored you with stuff that you already know........
I wish you good luck wherever you end up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ohhellojanie
Joined: 17 Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area, California
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| tideout wrote: |
ohhellojanie,
Welcome to Dave's Korean Job Discussion Forum. Unfortunately it may be one of the most unhappy forums on the internet. When posting even the most benign post, question or complaint, remember that all it takes is a drop of blood to bring out piranha like behavior.
Because of the size of the ESL market it draws a lot of people of all backgrounds, strengths and issues. Although it looks westernized, Korea's culture can be extremely difficult for people to navigate or even survive for some. There are some fools here who give foreigners a bad rap, but there are also some very well intended people who've been burned. In any case, it resists simple categorizing for me. Sorry if I've bored you with stuff that you already know........
I wish you good luck wherever you end up. |
Thanks, I appreciate it. Don't get me wrong - I'm totally open to hearing about people's negative experiences because I know that bad things have happened to all sorts of teachers. But the person giving the advice also has to be able to remember what it's like to be in the shoes of someone starting out from scratch - to be realistic but also solidly informative - because as someone who is in the process of applying, I know just how much competing information is out there about teaching EFL that new teachers have to rifle through and use to make their own decisions.
Anyways, thank you - & it won't discourage me from posting here again. I've still gotten better information on this board than anywhere else aside from the informational interviews I've done with teachers I know IRL. I might just tone down my enthusiasm a bit next time before I post - haha. :] |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Foster
Joined: 07 Jan 2010
|
| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Christ alive, Koreatimes, sounds like it's the time of the month!
....Come to think of it, why are you even in Korea if you don't have anything positive to say about the place? There are plenty of people who relish living abroad even in challenging conditions, why do you have to impose yourself on a country if you are seemingly so set against it?
Hey Ohhellojane, good luck with your application, I hope everything goes well. I've been accepted into the EPIK 2012 program so I may see you out there! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bentobento
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Location: US of A (for now)
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:18 am Post subject: |
|
|
Just throwing this out there.
If you are set on Korea you might want to look into hagwons. You submitted your application rather late. From what I've heard on other threads is that EPIK just now stopped accepting applications. They only have about 100 positions in Seoul. If you absolutely must have Seoul and no where else.... hagwon.
That said, I wish you luck and hope you don't have to face rejection like a handful of us already have. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
proverbs
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
wow, this thread was entertaining!
i read every single post! some excellent writing in here!
koreatimes was a bit harsh though. i think he has good intentions, but it just comes out the wrong way.
i had a co-worker come up to me the other day with some freshly brewed hot coffee and a packet of vitamin C lemon candy. she gave them to me because she said i looked tired and sick. i actually got a solid 8 hours of sleep and felt great that day... -_- |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
