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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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 Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:57 am Post subject: EXTREMIST Muslim group burns poppies on Armistice day |
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Muslims in UK demonstrating AGAINST poppy day.
http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/muslims-against-crusades-banned
Them and the damned horse they rode in on imo.
Some people just don't know how to make friends do they? Want to live amongst us and put down everything we stand for.
Gah, not allowed to swear on dave's... |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| I wonder what they'd say if offered a free trip "home". |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:20 am Post subject: |
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I like to think that fee speech includes the right to openly hate that which everyone is supposed to love or cherish. But then, you Brits can do as you like.
Though I don't really see the point. The individuals involved will not have their opinions changed by the guns of the State, and will only resent being muzzled. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:00 am Post subject: |
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But at what point do you just say "Hey, I hate this country, and I'd like to leave it"?
I mean, could not many of them go to places they'd like more?
If someone in the 50's US was talking about how much they'd love Communism, I'd talk rationally to them, but eventually just suggest - why not try?
If these guys want an Islamic State, why not head to one? |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
I like to think that fee speech includes the right to openly hate that which everyone is supposed to love or cherish. But then, you Brits can do as you like.
Though I don't really see the point. The individuals involved will not have their opinions changed by the guns of the State, and will only resent being muzzled. |
I don't think they have free speech in Uk like they do in the US. Basically everyone in the UK has free speech until the government decides arbitrarily what's 'too far'. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Firstly this looks bad for free speech, and secondly Brittish soldiers do have lots of Muslim blood on their hands, and I'm not just talking about recently, but through out their history.
This is not to say that I support the group, I don't know anything about them. I probably disagree with everything that they are for. I don't know anything about this poppy day so maybe I'm missing something. I think muslims have plenty of reasons to be angry with the UK, but would want to go there for economic reasons. |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:10 am Post subject: |
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there are limits to free speech though, you can't incite violence or say things that lead to damage. For example a group of anti-Queen Elizathians can't go out there and chant "die queen die, someone should put a bullet in her brain" as someone out there just might do it. There need to be limits to freedoms of all kind as eventually one's freedom will mean harm and death to others.
Isn't it ironic that after all the free speech talk defending cartoonist's right to freely draw the prophet Muhammad we now see the same group of people saying that burning poppies is going to far? Consistency people... |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: |
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Keep in mind that the value of free speech is not necessary for people who stand up on a soap box and praise cuddly puppies and warm, sunny summer days. Protection for free speech is for voicing unpopular ideas.
There are obvious limits to free speech: "Let's go torch the convenience shop and hang the clerk from the lamp post!"
recessiontime is right: "Isn't it ironic that after all the free speech talk defending cartoonist's right to freely draw the prophet Muhammad we now see the same group of people saying that burning poppies is going to far? Consistency people..." |
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recessiontime
Joined: 21 Jun 2010
Location: Got avatar privileges nyahahaha
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| It is also ironic that those that oppose publishing the drawings of Muhammad want free speech for themselves to promote Islam and denounce the West. It goes both ways really. |
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NovaKart
Joined: 18 Nov 2009
Location: Iraq
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| I don't for a moment think Muslims should be arrested for this statement. I do think they should be called out on for their hypocrisy and insult to a country that allowed them or their parents to immigrate. I live in the Turkish Republic and I disagree with a lot of their nationalist nonsense but I have enough respect for the local culture to not make an issue out of it and it's not just because I would be arrested for doing so. |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:20 am Post subject: |
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American posters claiming the UK has less free speach than the US is absurd to the highest degree.
Oakland what up yo! |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
American posters claiming the UK has less free speach than the US is absurd to the highest degree.
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I'm curious. What are the regulations on free speech in the UK. Are they different than in the US? |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
I like to think that fee speech includes the right to openly hate that which everyone is supposed to love or cherish. But then, you Brits can do as you like.
Though I don't really see the point. The individuals involved will not have their opinions changed by the guns of the State, and will only resent being muzzled. |
How about a group of American Muslims standing next to ground zero on 9/11 shouting 'US firefighters who died here rot in hell?'
You think the US govt would allow them to run a wesbite in the US organising recruitment for a group holding such sympathies and to spread such hatred and then allow them to bring their followers and chant such slogans at the former wtc site every year? Do you?
Do you really? |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
American posters claiming the UK has less free speech than the US is absurd to the highest degree.
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I'm curious. What are the regulations on free speech in the UK. Are they different than in the US? |
I'm not sure, maybe you could research it and post the findings here? |
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The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:37 am Post subject: |
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UK
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United Kingdom citizens have a negative right to freedom of expression under the common law.[41] In 1998, the United Kingdom incorporated the European Convention, and the guarantee of freedom of expression it contains in Article 10, into its domestic law under the Human Rights Act. There are many exceptions including incitement,[42] incitement to racial hatred,[43] incitement to religious hatred, incitement to terrorism including encouragement of terrorism and dissemination of terrorist publications,[42][44] glorifying terrorism,[45][46] collection or possession of information likely to be of use to a terrorist,[47][48] threatening, abusive, or insulting speech or behavior,[49][50] treason including imagining the death of the monarch,[51] sedition,[51] obscenity, indecency including corruption of public morals and outraging public decency,[52] defamation,[53] prior restraint, restrictions on court reporting including names of victims and evidence and prejudicing or interfering with court proceedings,[54][55] prohibition of post-trial interviews with jurors,[55] scandalizing the court by criticising or murmuring judges,[55] time, manner, and place restrictions,[56] harassment, privileged communications, trade secrets, classified material, copyright, patents, military conduct, and limitations on commercial speech such as advertising.
UK law imposes a number of limitations on freedom of speech not found in some other jurisdictions. For example, its laws recognise the crimes of incitement to racial hatred and incitement to religious hatred. UK laws on defamation are also considered[by whom?] among the strictest in the Western world, imposing a high burden of proof on the defendant. However, the Education (No. 2) Act 1986 guarantees freedom of speech (within institutions of further education and institutions of higher education) as long as it is within the law (see section 43 at http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1986/61). |
USA
| Quote: |
In the United States freedom of expression is protected by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. There are several statutory and common law exceptions including obscenity,[73][74] defamation,[73][74] incitement,[74] incitement to riot or imminent lawless action,[73][74] fighting words,[73] information decreed to be related to national security such as classified information,[75] false advertising,[74] perjury,[74] harassment, privileged communications, trade secrets, copyright, patents, military conduct, and time, place and manner restrictions.
The Newseum's five freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment to the US Constitution.Historically, local communities and governments have sometimes sought to place limits upon speech that was deemed subversive or unpopular. There was a significant struggle for the right to free speech on the campus of the University of California at Berkeley in the 1960s. And, in the period from 1906 to 1916, the Industrial Workers of the World, a working class union, found it necessary to engage in free speech fights intended to secure the right of union organizers to speak freely to wage workers. These free speech campaigns were sometimes quite successful, although participants often put themselves at great risk.[citation needed]
Freedom of speech is also sometimes limited to free speech zones, which can take the form of a wire fence enclosure, barricades, or an alternative venue designed to segregate speakers according to the content of their message. There is much controversy surrounding the creation of these areas � the mere existence of such zones is offensive to some people, who maintain that the First Amendment to the United States Constitution makes the entire country an unrestricted free speech zone.[76] Civil libertarians claim that Free Speech Zones are used as a form of censorship and public relations management to conceal the existence of popular opposition from the mass public and elected officials.[ |
The Department of Homeland Security under the Bush Administration "ha[d] even gone so far as to tell local police departments to regard critics of the War on Terrorism as potential terrorists themselves."[4
It seems they do have a lot of dissimilarities and neither are perfect.
Last edited by The Floating World on Fri Nov 11, 2011 8:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
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