|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
mayorgc
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
|
 Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 6:42 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Let me get this straight apologists in this thread. You are saying that in our home countries a random person can come off the street, go into a school, claim to be the ex-lover of one of the teachers, claim the teacher beat them and then the principal fires the teacher without any proof, court conviction, or even arrest? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| radcon wrote: |
| Let me get this straight apologists in this thread. You are saying that in our home countries a random person can come off the street, go into a school, claim to be the ex-lover of one of the teachers, claim the teacher beat them and then the principal fires the teacher without any proof, court conviction, or even arrest? |
Exactly, this is the 'essentially Korean' aspect of it that they for some reason I cannot fathom will continue to deny. I guess it makes them emotionally upset or something, I don't know.
The mindset of 'this is MY country and you are a mere guest and I can have you kicked out of it if you break up with me' just does not occur in general in other countries.
The though wouldn't pass through most people's minds, yet I have heard this happening at least anually here in the past 8 years.
Hey, maybe it is due to culture, the girl feels dishonoured (I have had a Korean ex and heard friend's korean exes say the have been 'dishonoured' by being dumped) and the only way she can save face is to ensure the guy isn't around any more.
hey, no problemo, it's a cultural differance - but let's not deny it!
Why the denial??? Why does the truth hurt so much? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Times30
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| radcon wrote: |
| Let me get this straight apologists in this thread. You are saying that in our home countries a random person can come off the street, go into a school, claim to be the ex-lover of one of the teachers, claim the teacher beat them and then the principal fires the teacher without any proof, court conviction, or even arrest? |
Not an apologist but I've read several similar stories, not necessarily regarding teachers though.
Most recently I read about a boy (from the US) who was accused of rape with no evidence and brought to court. Regardless, he lost his job, no one would hire him and can no longer bring himself to contact the outside world. The reason? Not even he knows why the girl did this.
The world is fragile and so is our system. All of us as teachers walk on thin ice when it comes to our jobs. And just to be clear that this isn't a Korea thing. In my last school I worked for, I heard about a teacher who was fired because she was searching the pockets of a student who stole from another girl. It was true, she DID steal, but that girl complained and had her fired. The teacher never worked in education again.
So yeah, false or true, claims against you can get you in hot water. It's one reason why the education system is so corrupt. Teachers bend over backwards and the students have WAY more power than teachers.
Ever wonder why hagwons don't punish and colleges do teacher surveys? It's ridiculous worldwide. Korea not being an exception on either side of the scale. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Times30 wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| Let me get this straight apologists in this thread. You are saying that in our home countries a random person can come off the street, go into a school, claim to be the ex-lover of one of the teachers, claim the teacher beat them and then the principal fires the teacher without any proof, court conviction, or even arrest? |
Not an apologist but I've read several similar stories, not necessarily regarding teachers though.
Most recently I read about a boy (from the US) who was accused of rape with no evidence and brought to court. Regardless, he lost his job, no one would hire him and can no longer bring himself to contact the outside world. The reason? Not even he knows why the girl did this.
The world is fragile and so is our system. All of us as teachers walk on thin ice when it comes to our jobs. And just to be clear that this isn't a Korea thing. In my last school I worked for, I heard about a teacher who was fired because she was searching the pockets of a student who stole from another girl. It was true, she DID steal, but that girl complained and had her fired. The teacher never worked in education again.
So yeah, false or true, claims against you can get you in hot water. It's one reason why the education system is so corrupt. Teachers bend over backwards and the students have WAY more power than teachers.
Ever wonder why hagwons don't punish and colleges do teacher surveys? It's ridiculous worldwide. Korea not being an exception on either side of the scale. |
Once again your examples are not pertinent. The rapist in your story was brought up on charges and went to trial and the second teacher was invading the privacy of students. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Times30
Joined: 27 Mar 2010
|
| Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 11:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| radcon wrote: |
| Times30 wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| Let me get this straight apologists in this thread. You are saying that in our home countries a random person can come off the street, go into a school, claim to be the ex-lover of one of the teachers, claim the teacher beat them and then the principal fires the teacher without any proof, court conviction, or even arrest? |
Not an apologist but I've read several similar stories, not necessarily regarding teachers though.
Most recently I read about a boy (from the US) who was accused of rape with no evidence and brought to court. Regardless, he lost his job, no one would hire him and can no longer bring himself to contact the outside world. The reason? Not even he knows why the girl did this.
The world is fragile and so is our system. All of us as teachers walk on thin ice when it comes to our jobs. And just to be clear that this isn't a Korea thing. In my last school I worked for, I heard about a teacher who was fired because she was searching the pockets of a student who stole from another girl. It was true, she DID steal, but that girl complained and had her fired. The teacher never worked in education again.
So yeah, false or true, claims against you can get you in hot water. It's one reason why the education system is so corrupt. Teachers bend over backwards and the students have WAY more power than teachers.
Ever wonder why hagwons don't punish and colleges do teacher surveys? It's ridiculous worldwide. Korea not being an exception on either side of the scale. |
Once again your examples are not pertinent. The rapist in your story was brought up on charges and went to trial and the second teacher was invading the privacy of students. |
If anything the fact he went to court probably should show how it's even MORE messed up irregardless. Even though his work knew he was innocent, they STILL fired him. OP COULD have gone to court but opted out because frankly it's too much trouble. The boy in my story DID go to court but still lost out on everything, including his reputation. Either way it was a lose situation for him. Court or not, he lost his job and his friends. There is no justice in our country or any other. If you want a thinly veiled bureaucracy to assuage the idea that a puppet government protects by all means go ahead.
But our government as much as Korea's is not immutable from corruption or problems. If anything we all know that US court system suffers from upholding the law over justice. I won't get into it but basically we all know that even if someone is guilty, a minor loophole such as Miranda rights not read or inadmissible evidence can overturn murderers and those completely guilt ridden. Let's not pretend that any government or judicial system is perfect or better. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
| radcon wrote: |
| Let me get this straight apologists in this thread. You are saying that in our home countries a random person can come off the street, go into a school, claim to be the ex-lover of one of the teachers, claim the teacher beat them and then the principal fires the teacher without any proof, court conviction, or even arrest? |
yet that's NOT what happened here.
| atwood wrote: |
I'm curious as to why you think so with such certainty.
And do you think he would be awarded damages?
I agree about associating with "crazies"--life's too short. |
I'm not certain about it, but I'm pretty sure. One, I think he'd have grounds for a defamation/cyber bullying case. And two, I think he'd do well against his employer for wrongful dismissal. I talked with an attorney about the case, and they agreed that he'd be strong on both counts (only knowing what has been said here).
As for damages, that's a whole other ball game. I'd put money on him winning, but the awarded damages wouldn't be like the links I've posted. For me though, I'd pursuer it. I have no problem fighting something that I know I won't make money on, but might have a 'moral victory' in.
Glad we both agree on avoiding crazies. I'm betting it'd save half of the stories we read about on here if people had some better 'crazy radar." lol |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 3:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| Let me get this straight apologists in this thread. You are saying that in our home countries a random person can come off the street, go into a school, claim to be the ex-lover of one of the teachers, claim the teacher beat them and then the principal fires the teacher without any proof, court conviction, or even arrest? |
yet that's NOT what happened here.
| atwood wrote: |
I'm curious as to why you think so with such certainty.
And do you think he would be awarded damages?
I agree about associating with "crazies"--life's too short. |
I'm not certain about it, but I'm pretty sure. One, I think he'd have grounds for a defamation/cyber bullying case. And two, I think he'd do well against his employer for wrongful dismissal. I talked with an attorney about the case, and they agreed that he'd be strong on both counts (only knowing what has been said here).
As for damages, that's a whole other ball game. I'd put money on him winning, but the awarded damages wouldn't be like the links I've posted. For me though, I'd pursuer it. I have no problem fighting something that I know I won't make money on, but might have a 'moral victory' in.
Glad we both agree on avoiding crazies. I'm betting it'd save half of the stories we read about on here if people had some better 'crazy radar." lol |
Thats not what happened? OK fine. She didnt walk into the school, she called the school, or had a womans group contact the school. Does it make a difference whether she walked in or called the school? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 4:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Perhaps you should go back and read what happened. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| radcon wrote: |
| Let me get this straight apologists in this thread. You are saying that in our home countries a random person can come off the street, go into a school, claim to be the ex-lover of one of the teachers, claim the teacher beat them and then the principal fires the teacher without any proof, court conviction, or even arrest? |
First like Captain said this is NOT how it happened for the OP so read up please.
Second, if you think teachers cannot be fired, suspended or have their reputations ruined due to allegations, vicious rumors or claims made then you need to take your head out of the sand.
This happens because schools have grown hyper-sensitive to any risk of loss of reputation or legal action (this is here in Canada by the way). Contractual workers of any type (including) teachers get fired for wrong reasons ALL THE TIME. Its sad, wrong and often disgusting. What happened to Sadguy was wrong as the school just chose its image over its teacher. You think thats a Korea exclusive? Thats your choice really.
Now about the apologist thing that you tossed around like some shiny toy you just found, do you also climb up on your soapbox and sermon in threads where blatant prejudice and racist comments are made regarding Koreans? Or is that just ok in your books?
Seriously...this whole apologist thing has become quite funny. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Floating World
Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
The mindset of 'this is MY country and you are a mere guest and I can have you kicked out of it if you break up with me' just does not occur in general in other countries.
The though wouldn't pass through most people's minds, yet I have heard this happening at least anually here in the past 8 years.
Hey, maybe it is due to culture, the girl feels dishonoured (I have had a Korean ex and heard friend's korean exes say the have been 'dishonoured' by being dumped) and the only way she can save face is to ensure the guy isn't around any more.
hey, no problemo, it's a cultural differance - but let's not deny it!
Why the denial??? Why does the truth hurt so much? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Perhaps you should go back and read what happened. |
How is that not what happened? Was the girlfriend known to the school? No? Then she was a random person off the street. The OP has worked for middle schools for over 3 years.
From the OP's story it seemed like the school would keep him on after the blog postings but changed their minds once the allegations of beatings surfaced. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
radcon
Joined: 23 May 2011
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| radcon wrote: |
| Let me get this straight apologists in this thread. You are saying that in our home countries a random person can come off the street, go into a school, claim to be the ex-lover of one of the teachers, claim the teacher beat them and then the principal fires the teacher without any proof, court conviction, or even arrest? |
First like Captain said this is NOT how it happened for the OP so read up please.
Second, if you think teachers cannot be fired, suspended or have their reputations ruined due to allegations, vicious rumors or claims made then you need to take your head out of the sand.
This happens because schools have grown hyper-sensitive to any risk of loss of reputation or legal action (this is here in Canada by the way). Contractual workers of any type (including) teachers get fired for wrong reasons ALL THE TIME. Its sad, wrong and often disgusting. What happened to Sadguy was wrong as the school just chose its image over its teacher. You think thats a Korea exclusive? Thats your choice really.
Now about the apologist thing that you tossed around like some shiny toy you just found, do you also climb up on your soapbox and sermon in threads where blatant prejudice and racist comments are made regarding Koreans? Or is that just ok in your books?
Seriously...this whole apologist thing has become quite funny. |
I don't care either way Homer. I just call them as I see them. Unlike you who has been sycophantically defending all things Korean since the last century. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| radcon wrote: |
A lot of comparing apples to oranges in this thread. Yes people get fired in the west for all sorts of unjust reasons. However, show me an example along the lines of " Jilted girlfriend goes to workplace, complains about ex boyfriend employee, claiming abuse, boyfriend fired without even being asked his side of the story." This is what happened here.
. |
No, she never went to his workplace and claimed abuse. Read what actually happened and THEN post. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
|
| Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| radcon wrote: |
A lot of comparing apples to oranges in this thread. Yes people get fired in the west for all sorts of unjust reasons. However, show me an example along the lines of " Jilted girlfriend goes to workplace, complains about ex boyfriend employee, claiming abuse, boyfriend fired without even being asked his side of the story." This is what happened here.
. |
I already posted two examples like this.
http://www.undercoverlawyer.com/forum/topic.php?id=1684
happened to this guy.
http://www.laborlawtalk.com/showthread.php?t=187224&page=1 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
