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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:26 am Post subject: |
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| ThingsComeAround wrote: |
| Smithington wrote: |
| Oh well. I have zero interest in learning Korean (don't like the language), don't hang out with Koreans (what on earth would we take about? kimchi? Dokdo?) . As one might have detected from my OP, I don't particularly like it here. Immersing myself further into the culture is not the solution. |
There are jobs here, just not for people like you  |
Yup. Even foreign companies will be staffed almost completely by Koreans - who speak Korean, hang out with other Koreans, eat Korean food.
I lived in Korea nearly two years, learned the language, the culture, now in my second year working for a foreign bank I've had the opportunity to transfer back to Seoul. It's not easy, and it took support from Korean coworkers who attested to my language ability and familiarity with the culture (because it costs a company much, much more to hire an expat than a Korean, and on top of it there's lots of "politics" to fight through). You'll be expected to adopt the corporate culture...you just seem like you want a higher paycheck and a Western work environment..and sorry but that attitude will get you nowhere. Just about all the Western expats I know who transferred (from being in Korea) to corporate work had a good level of Korean language skills and interest in the culture - not to mention work-specific qualifications. |
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krnpowr
Joined: 08 Dec 2011
Location: Midwest, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| I have zero interest in learning Korean (don't like the language), don't hang out with Koreans (what on earth would we take about? kimchi? Dokdo?) . As one might have detected from my OP, I don't particularly like it here. Immersing myself further into the culture is not the solution. |
Clearly, there wouldn't be anything else for you to do in Korea. If the only thing that's preventing you from leaving Korea is your ladyfriend, you're in for a long and miserable life.
Keep in mind, you went to Korea because you couldn't find a job back home even while being able to speak the official language of your country. You think your job prospects in Korea, other than teaching ESL, are any better without knowing the language?
Everybody knows teaching ESL in Asia is a dead end job and merely nothing more than a hiatus or stepping stone into the real world. Some, however, get caught up in situations that prevent them from moving on- typically by virtue of getting involved in relationships. It's a situation where you have to bear and grin it. |
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| krnpowr wrote: |
Keep in mind, you went to Korea because you couldn't find a job back home even while being able to speak the official language of your country. |
Are you addressing the OP specifically, or making base generalizations on tens of thousands of people you don't know? |
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krnpowr
Joined: 08 Dec 2011
Location: Midwest, USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| nate1983 wrote: |
| krnpowr wrote: |
Keep in mind, you went to Korea because you couldn't find a job back home even while being able to speak the official language of your country. |
Are you addressing the OP specifically, or making base generalizations on tens of thousands of people you don't know? |
With my comment that you pointed out, I was addressing the OP, but I make that assumption with the fact that virtually every NET I spoke to in Korea when I was there, was there because of the reason that I alluded to. It's not like it's a secret. All the foreigners there know it, all the Koreans know it.
Also, it's safe to assume that the OP had and currently has no prospects of securing a significant job back home provided his information. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| krnpowr wrote: |
| nate1983 wrote: |
| krnpowr wrote: |
Keep in mind, you went to Korea because you couldn't find a job back home even while being able to speak the official language of your country. |
Are you addressing the OP specifically, or making base generalizations on tens of thousands of people you don't know? |
With my comment that you pointed out, I was addressing the OP, but I make that assumption with the fact that virtually every NET I spoke to in Korea when I was there, was there because of the reason that I alluded to. It's not like it's a secret. All the foreigners there know it, all the Koreans know it.
Also, it's safe to assume that the OP had and currently has no prospects of securing a significant job back home provided his information. |
While in recent years the first part of your assumption may be somewhat true (people going to Korea because they are unable to secure employment back home); the second part is highly dependant on many factors including the fact that many people PREFER working and living abroad after they have experienced it.
I know when I came to Korea (wayyyy back in 1997) most of us could have found jobs back home or had jobs (I did). Most long-termers I knew and know are not "stuck" in Korea, they choose to be there.
Just saying its a bit more diverse than: can't get work home and stuck in Korea. This may shock the hell out of you but lots of people love or like living in Korea.... |
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furtakk
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| krnpowr wrote: |
| With my comment that you pointed out, I was addressing the OP, but I make that assumption with the fact that virtually every NET I spoke to in Korea when I was there, was there because of the reason that I alluded to. It's not like it's a secret. All the foreigners there know it, all the Koreans know it. |
I only hear this online. I have never actually met someone who has outright said that they came because they couldn't find a job back home. Nearly everyone I've met who works here is doing it as a 1-2 year gap year type thing before grad school/real life. I'm part of that crowd as well, but I ended up hanging on for a third year because I genuinely like it here. If I can eventually find an opportunity outside of esl, I'll be here for a long time.
The older crowd (late 20s/early 30s) might be a bit different. At least the ones who are still working random hagwon/ps jobs, but most of my friends are around the 23-26 age. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| furtakk wrote: |
| krnpowr wrote: |
| With my comment that you pointed out, I was addressing the OP, but I make that assumption with the fact that virtually every NET I spoke to in Korea when I was there, was there because of the reason that I alluded to. It's not like it's a secret. All the foreigners there know it, all the Koreans know it. |
I only hear this online. I have never actually met someone who has outright said that they came because they couldn't find a job back home. Nearly everyone I've met who works here is doing it as a 1-2 year gap year type thing before grad school/real life. I'm part of that crowd as well, but I ended up hanging on for a third year because I genuinely like it here. If I can eventually find an opportunity outside of esl, I'll be here for a long time.
The older crowd (late 20s/early 30s) might be a bit different. At least the ones who are still working random hagwon/ps jobs, but most of my friends are around the 23-26 age. |
Just curious...why would you qualify your time in Korea as not part of your real life?
I find this odd, always have. |
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nate1983
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| furtakk wrote: |
| krnpowr wrote: |
| With my comment that you pointed out, I was addressing the OP, but I make that assumption with the fact that virtually every NET I spoke to in Korea when I was there, was there because of the reason that I alluded to. It's not like it's a secret. All the foreigners there know it, all the Koreans know it. |
I only hear this online. I have never actually met someone who has outright said that they came because they couldn't find a job back home. Nearly everyone I've met who works here is doing it as a 1-2 year gap year type thing before grad school/real life. I'm part of that crowd as well, but I ended up hanging on for a third year because I genuinely like it here. If I can eventually find an opportunity outside of esl, I'll be here for a long time.
The older crowd (late 20s/early 30s) might be a bit different. At least the ones who are still working random hagwon/ps jobs, but most of my friends are around the 23-26 age. |
Just curious...why would you qualify your time in Korea as not part of your real life?
I find this odd, always have. |
I think he/she meant to allude to the "real world," commonly understood to mean the corporate world where most people end up spending the bulk of their working lives. I don't think it was supposed to be a knock on life in Korea, just differentiating the experience there from that of the normal "career path". |
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Harpeau
Joined: 01 Feb 2003
Location: Coquitlam, BC
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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Back to the OP's original question:
I have an F-2 Visa. I'm working as a counselor life/coach in Seoul. I also lecture at a university, act in CF, movies & TV shows, along with sing and play guitar here and there.
I'm wondering if the OP might be experiencing a bit of culture shock? It sounds like there is a tension between your love for your partner and your disdaine for things korean. That can make for a frustrating life. As my buddy always told me~you either poop, or you get off the pot! 
All the best to you. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 8:56 am Post subject: |
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| nate1983 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| furtakk wrote: |
| krnpowr wrote: |
| With my comment that you pointed out, I was addressing the OP, but I make that assumption with the fact that virtually every NET I spoke to in Korea when I was there, was there because of the reason that I alluded to. It's not like it's a secret. All the foreigners there know it, all the Koreans know it. |
I only hear this online. I have never actually met someone who has outright said that they came because they couldn't find a job back home. Nearly everyone I've met who works here is doing it as a 1-2 year gap year type thing before grad school/real life. I'm part of that crowd as well, but I ended up hanging on for a third year because I genuinely like it here. If I can eventually find an opportunity outside of esl, I'll be here for a long time.
The older crowd (late 20s/early 30s) might be a bit different. At least the ones who are still working random hagwon/ps jobs, but most of my friends are around the 23-26 age. |
Just curious...why would you qualify your time in Korea as not part of your real life?
I find this odd, always have. |
I think he/she meant to allude to the "real world," commonly understood to mean the corporate world where most people end up spending the bulk of their working lives. I don't think it was supposed to be a knock on life in Korea, just differentiating the experience there from that of the normal "career path". |
did not take it as a knock on Korea. I just find the divider of real world vs working abroad as a bit odd thats all.
The normal is also something I find interesting when used in this context.
Well, everyone is different anyway! |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:58 am Post subject: |
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I've met these types before and I think almost all of them have one thing in common... they didn't choose to come here. The embassy staff are sent by the Foreign Office and the businessmen by their companies. And it's understandable why they resent the place a bit when perhaps they were hoping to be transferred to a tropical paradise somewhere and they ended up in Seoul.
ESL teachers choose to come here and can leave at any time, which makes the OP all the more baffling. |
Some of those guys 'get sent' by their companies or embassies in the sense that they won't get promoted otherwise and some of them willingly apply for foreign posts. The main point about guys like that is their primary concern is either making money or furthering their careers in the foreign office, not things like kimchi making courses, temple stays and language exchanges. And that would be the same wherever they end up. Apart from teachers or backpackers I'd say a degree of contempt for the local culture is the default attitude among most working ex pats I've met over the years. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
I've met these types before and I think almost all of them have one thing in common... they didn't choose to come here. The embassy staff are sent by the Foreign Office and the businessmen by their companies. And it's understandable why they resent the place a bit when perhaps they were hoping to be transferred to a tropical paradise somewhere and they ended up in Seoul.
ESL teachers choose to come here and can leave at any time, which makes the OP all the more baffling. |
Some of those guys 'get sent' by their companies or embassies in the sense that they won't get promoted otherwise and some of them willingly apply for foreign posts. The main point about guys like that is their primary concern is either making money or furthering their careers in the foreign office, not things like kimchi making courses, temple stays and language exchanges. And that would be the same wherever they end up. Apart from teachers or backpackers I'd say a degree of contempt for the local culture is the default attitude among most working ex pats I've met over the years. |
You are bang on about Diplomatic/Embassy staff. They experience very little of the country they work in. In the Canadian context, typical FS postings last 3 years and a FS officer does not get posted to the same country on back to back postings. While there, they work for the CDN government and interact mostly with other embassy staff or with staff from other foreign embassies. If they interact with locals it will be a select group. Thats the nature of the beast of course. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| krnpowr wrote: |
[q?
Everybody knows teaching ESL in Asia is a dead end job and merely nothing more than a hiatus or stepping stone into the real world. . |
While I do agree with much of the rest of what you have said, the above phrase is a pile of cold horse droppings.
This is the real world my friend. Just as real as back home.
And as for being a "dead-end job" well yes if you treat it as such. For example drinking every night away, not bothering to improve your qualifications or language ability, playing Hangman, Bingo or bomb games every second day in class...
Those of us, however who sought out extra qualifications or responsibilities in order to improve our marketability and hence our cash flow and overall living standards have found it anything but.
Projecting one's unfulfilled expectations on everyone else may be emotionally satisfying no doubt as it neatly avoids taking personal responsibility. "It's not me, it's this place...everyone feels the same way".
The only problem with this premise however...it's simply not true.
HAND. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| I heard that foreigners can get a job at Burger King. However, you have to have an original copy of a notorized french fry with an apostille from the FFBI (French Fry Bureau of Investigation). |
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krnpowr
Joined: 08 Dec 2011
Location: Midwest, USA
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| Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| krnpowr wrote: |
[q?
Everybody knows teaching ESL in Asia is a dead end job and merely nothing more than a hiatus or stepping stone into the real world. . |
While I do agree with much of the rest of what you have said, the above phrase is a pile of cold horse droppings.
This is the real world my friend. Just as real as back home.
And as for being a "dead-end job" well yes if you treat it as such. For example drinking every night away, not bothering to improve your qualifications or language ability, playing Hangman, Bingo or bomb games every second day in class...
Those of us, however who sought out extra qualifications or responsibilities in order to improve our marketability and hence our cash flow and overall living standards have found it anything but.
Projecting one's unfulfilled expectations on everyone else may be emotionally satisfying no doubt as it neatly avoids taking personal responsibility. "It's not me, it's this place...everyone feels the same way".
The only problem with this premise however...it's simply not true.
HAND. |
You've done what you can to improve your standing as an ESL teacher in Korea/Asia and to secure your employment outlook in that field, however, I'll stand by what I said about ESL in Asia being a dead end gig.
Someone can work on and improve their skills to be a better telemarketer, but the fact of the matter is telemarketing is a dead end job. At least telemarketing would allow you to manage a call center someday, however. Teaching ESL levels off at the 1+ level in Korea with no chances of advancing thereafter or getting pay raises. At least if you're a teacher in America, experience and recognition can elevate you to a principal and subsequently a superintendent position and continuous raises in pay.
Don't get me wrong, teaching ESL in Asia can provide an easy life and afford you a middle class life in Asia, however, there is no opportunity to advance beyond that. But for some of the NET lifers in Korea, that's just fine and dandy. |
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