Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Mr Lee's Monkey]

Despite having been here for four years, I still am confused by what I see and hear is going on with pension benefits from hagwons for those who are elligible to pay in and get it back. Many hagwon jobs posted by the employers themselves and recruiters specify no pension from the outset. If it's illegal, how is it that so many places are doing this? My last job, I followed a guy into the spot that had agreed with the employer not to pay into pension or health care. He then told me his intention was to go after the employer for the pension when he'd left the job. Is this possible? Can a person agree to take a job that doesn't include the pension and then apply for it when the job is over and actually collect it? I saw where Ttompatz had responded to someone unsure about taking a job without pension that maybe using pension as a criteria for whether a job was worth taking was not the best approach in a really tight market. That just added to my confusion, because I often rely on his advice and information on this board to make informed decisions. So, TUM, Ttompatz, et al....... can you tell me more about the "illegality" of jobs without pension? Does immigration care whether it's offered? Can one be busted for working a job that doesn't offer it? Can one collect after the fact, regardless of whether it was offered or not. Thanks in advance for your responses.

[ttompatz]

[TheUrbanMyth]

[Mr Lee's Monkey]

I appreciate the prompt, informative responses from both of you. If one can pursue it although the schools don't offer it, why do you think the schools refuse to pay it in the first place? Are they counting on a lot of teachers not realizing they can go after it? Is one automatically on the hook for the NHIC as well if they pursue the pension at any given point?

[ttompatz]

[Mr Lee's Monkey]

What if one goes after the pension when they've stopped working for the school that says they don't pay pension - I understand that one would need to pay their portion to NPS to be matched by the employer, but does that also trigger something with NHIC?

[Armin_Tamzarian]

I totally agree with ttompatz's post about the struggle you may have to go through to get this issue cleared up. Let me give you an example: my recent visits to the NPS in Gwangju (3 different centres over the spring and summer) and the International Centre in Seoul on Monday December 26th, 2011 (Boxing Day for those of us Commonwealth citizens!)

A few months ago when I was still with my former employer, I went down to one of the local pension offices in Gwangju to enquire about getting my refund. I was told that I would not get any because my employer had registered me as an independent contractor. I found this strange so I went and asked my boss about this and he said I don't get pension because it's not stated in the contract. I found this sketchy so I began to do some research (Dave's was a big help) and found out about this being a fairly common thing (not universal, but common). So I went back to the pension office to ask about this situation and get my status changed.

Visit 1: I was told that I was correct but that I had to go to a labour office
to get this changed. Went to said office and was told to go to
Immigration. Immigration of course said that this is not their
issue.

Visit 2: Went to a different regional office in Gwangju (turned out to be
the one for foreign workers). The two men we spoke to seemed
very interested in my case and discovered that all the
hagwon's foreign teachers had been registered as independent
contractors since 2005. They decide to look into the matter and
will call my boss.

Visit 3: Go back two days later. Now I'm meeting with a third person (he
seemed like he was a manager or someone higher up). I'm told
that they called my boss and that everything checks out. He
tells me that no matter what my contract says, my boss
determines what my status is and they can't do anything. He
said NTS (Tax Office) would have the power to change my status
to employee. I go to the Tax Office and they say they can't do
anything to change my status. At this point I'm confused,
frustrated and angry.

Around this time a spoke with a labour lawyer and he said that this is typical of civil servants and that I should just keep trying until I get someone who knows his/her job and wants to help. Soon afterwards I got a new job so I put this on the backburner until I left my old job and got my severance pay.

Fast forward to the 26th of December (sorry for the length)

I walk into the International Office in Seoul. First person I speak to speaks excellent English so I explain my situation. He takes my info and calls the Gwangju Office (most likely speaking to that manager-guy I spoke to). I was told the same thing as my previous visit but I also was told that

if the hagwon is deducting pension off your pay and pocketing it, the pension office will go after them but if they aren't doing that then pension considers everything to be legit and they can't change your employee status

I show the guy my contracts and explain that my contracts say I'm a full-time employee so I should be registered as such. He calls the Gwangju office back and the guy in Gwangju says

my status is controlled through the Tax Office and therefore to make any change, the Tax Office would have to do it. I could file a claim/complaint at the Tax Office, show them my documents and they would do an investigation. If they agreed with my claim, they would issue a certificate saying I'm a fulltime employee and not a contractor. I could then go to the Gwangju NPS office with this certificate and then get the pension stuff sorted out

The next day I called the Tax Office hotline and was told that they don't do that and they can't change my status and only my former employer could change my status.

So back to square one basically :p So there's my experience so far.

Ttompatz, you're the most knowledgeable person on this subject that I've read in doing all my research. At this point what would you recommend I do?

Am I just being fed a load of BS by the pension and tax people?

Are there certain people I should be requesting to speak to at NPS or NTS?

Should I give up going the NPS/NTS route and file a complaint at the Labour Office or sue my ex-bosses to get my status changed?

Please help a former Gwangjuer out I really don't know what I should do next. I can't PM or e-mail yet but PM me if you don't want to post your response on this thread. Thanks a lot!

[CentralCali]

All that each governmental agency here cares about is that the monies coming in match the amounts commensurate with the status reported to them, not the status reported to any other agency.

You will need to get a court order to have your status changed at those bureacracies. KTX shafted quite a few of their female employees with that same stunt that your former boss pulled and it took years to get a judge to issue the order.

There are still other ways for the employer to shaft you: under-report your salary to NPS, NHI, and the tax offices while still deducting the appropriate amount from your full salary; and the infamous "11th month firing," to name two.

[ttompatz]

[Armin_Tamzarian]

[quote="ttompatz"]