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Paul fans - Romney or Obama?
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weso1



Joined: 26 Aug 2010

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 6:15 pm    Post subject: Paul fans - Romney or Obama? Reply with quote

Just curious, I know a lot of the posters that hang out on the current events forum are major Ron Paul supporters. I think many of them worship at the church of Paul. But frankly, I think it's a waste of time.

The GOP is going to nominate Romney. That's just reality. The big wigs and the money is behind him, so he's the guy. Ron Paul is too chicken and/or lazy to mount a rebel third party run, so once Super Tuesday is over, you're going to have two choices, Romney or Obama.

Who are the Paul lovers going to vote for? Obama would be their closest match, but by no means a "strong second." And anyone who supports Paul and then votes for Romney, is well, stupid. Are they going to throw their vote away with a write in or what?
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Kimbop



Joined: 31 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Paul fans - Romney or Obama? Reply with quote

weso1 wrote:
Just curious, I know a lot of the posters that hang out on the current events forum are major Ron Paul supporters. I think many of them worship at the church of Paul. But frankly, I think it's a waste of time.

The GOP is going to nominate Romney. That's just reality. The big wigs and the money is behind him, so he's the guy. Ron Paul is too chicken and/or lazy to mount a rebel third party run, so once Super Tuesday is over, you're going to have two choices, Romney or Obama.

Who are the Paul lovers going to vote for? Obama would be their closest match, but by no means a "strong second." And anyone who supports Paul and then votes for Romney, is well, stupid. Are they going to throw their vote away with a write in or what?


Newt has been leading in the polls. Too early to say for sure.

RP is certainly not lazy or chicken. He's getting out his message the best he can. He won't run on a 3rd party ticket, as even he realizes doing so would be mostly superfluous/insurmountable.

RP is a Republican because he wants government to have LESS involvement in our lives. Most RP supporters would probably support the GOP candidate, for better or for worse, to directly achieve: eliminate Obamacare, right to bear arms, support DOMA.

The GOP advocate the following, but judging from recent history, will not necessarily implement them. They'll win support largely for emotional reasons:

fewer government employees, fewer illegal immigrants, reign in Ponzi scheme unsustainable social security.

Bottom line: RP is a GOP candidate because only a republican would axe the IRS, axe most government jobs, axe anchor baby citizenship, axe all welfare, and grant universal gun ownership. ie: only a republican would unwaveringly honor the original constitution. (could you imagine a big-government democract supporting any of this??) The real crux is: the GOP is less likely to lead our country towards European nanny-statism; granted, we're both completely broke -- and both completely overextended -- albeit for different reasons. Simply put: most RP fans will vote for Romney/Newt, or stay home.
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comm



Joined: 22 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Paul fans - Romney or Obama? Reply with quote

weso1 wrote:
Are they going to throw their vote away with a write in or what?


The only people who "throw their vote away" are the a**hats who stay home. Americans Elect is putting a 3rd party candidate on the ballot in all 50 States. If Paul isn't the Republican nominee, that 3rd party guy would have to do very little to win my vote.

But you are making some big assumptions. You're positing that Romney wins in a landslide and isn't forced to address any of Paul's positions. If Paul goes into the GOP convention with a large number of delegates, the GOP nominee might feel compelled to accommodate some of Paul's ideas (or promise him a government position) to earn his endorsement and that of, as you respectfully put it, his fans. If Paul plays hardball (and after all, what has he got to lose?) he can privately threaten a 3rd party run but endorse on the condition of an influential position such as Fed Reserve chairman.

To be perfectly honest, weso1, the things that Obama promised while campaigning (and earned my vote) are a lot of the things that pull me to Ron Paul. He ran on opposition to the Patriot Act, but he has extended it and intends to sign the much worse NDAA. Isn't that massive lie enough to disqualify him? Or should I add SOPA, cracking down on Ca pot dispensaries, sending the FDA after raw milk producers (Amish farmers included), following Bush's war plan (staying in countries until we're kicked out) and surrendering to the wallstreet backers of his campaign whom he damn well could be outing as responsible for our financial crisis... And I should reward all of those lies and BS with a vote?

And Kimbop:
Are you aware Ron Paul opposes DOMA and wants the government out of all marriages? Also, did you know that Newt Gingrich has passed more gun regulations than Obama?
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Kimbop



Joined: 31 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Sat Dec 24, 2011 10:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Paul fans - Romney or Obama? Reply with quote

comm wrote:

And Kimbop:
Are you aware Ron Paul opposes DOMA and wants the government out of all marriages?



Yes. I went back to what I wrote and it made no sense to me either. I guess I was trying to explain that most Ron Paul fans would support the GOP candidate, even though Ron Paul and his fans do not support DOMA (which remains popular among 'mainstream' Republican voters).


comm wrote:
Also, did you know that Newt Gingrich has passed more gun regulations than Obama?


You're right. Interesting stuff:

http://conservativenewjersey.com/newt-gingrich-on-guns-a-mixed-record

http://www.gunrightsinamerica.com/tag/newt-gingrich/

http://www.newt.org/solutions/second-amendment

I nevertheless imagine that gun owners would put more faith in Newt's supreme court picks than in Obama's, and nomatter how 'unfriendly' Newt may seem to gun owners, Obama would be much worse.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obama, for me at least, is clearly the lesser of two evils. I see very little that Romney offers other than the usual Republican mantra. The one little hope I have about him is that he may govern centrist in that he was governor of Massachusettes and you can't be too far right in that state.

His economic plan is no different than what you hear the typical Republican says..cut taxes for this and that, drill in the gulf or anywhere there is oil, cut spending, etc.

Its sometimes the case that Presidents spend their last 4 years worrying about their legacy and doing things they actually believe in. That may happen with Obama. Corporations will continue to get richer and more powerful under Romney I fear.

Not that I'm anti capitalism. Far from it. I'm a Gordon Gekko, 'greed is good' kinda person but the big money has too much influence in Washington. They write most of the laws that govern them.

I have voted for both parties but won't vote Republican unless its Ron Paul, Gary Johnson and possibly Huntsman. I don't see any way Ron Paul gets the nomination. I know its the people that vote but the Republican heirarchy can make it difficult enough that the people don't get a chance. They have their man in Romney and that's who Iexpect to get the nomination. I don't see Newt getting it. People have lost Iowa and still get the nomination. Its huge but its not the ultimate decider.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Ron Paul gets the Republican nomination than a revolution will have happened. It would be the end of the Republican Party as we now know it.
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
If Ron Paul gets the Republican nomination than a revolution will have happened. It would be the end of the Republican Party as we now know it.


I don't know if it will be the end but it will change things for a time. There have been different incarnations of both parties over time. Different philosophies take over.

If Paul wins, I would also expect to see same minded candidates pop up for Congressional seats as well as state legislatures. Someone who is willing to vote for Paul I would assume would be willing to vote for a congressional candidate talking the same things.

The Republican heirarchy would be working hard to get 'their' version of the party back.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Paul fans - Romney or Obama? Reply with quote

weso1 wrote:
Just curious, I know a lot of the posters that hang out on the current events forum are major Ron Paul supporters. I think many of them worship at the church of Paul. But frankly, I think it's a waste of time.


Your thread is more of a waste of time. Mr. Wall Street or Captain Capitulation? Either choice results in more of the same. But yes, I'd go with Captain Capitulation if pressed, only because his foreign policy has yielded some gains (although it is tainted with domestic reversals such as keeping Gitmo open and ignoring the War Powers Act). Of course, I'm more likely to vote protest third-party.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Obama's first two years were fairly progressive by previous American President's standards. I think Obama got into trouble because he tried to be a new kind of non-partisan politician. So, he tried to work with the Republicans in the house which significantly increased the conservativism of his administration and led to nicknames like "Captain Capitulation." Obama seems to get this. I think you will see less and less compromise with the Republicans if Obama gets a second term. His foreign policy successes shows that Obama can be an effective leader when the Republicans aren't trying to sabotage him. I suspect we will see a much different Obama administration if he is re-elected.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm all for a third party candidacy as well. The more, the merrier. Fourth, fifth, sixth....I don't really care. As long as they are all from the right wing, I think it's a good deal.

I can see a GOP establishment candidate: more war, more tax breaks for the 1%; a libertarian candidate: isolationism, turn power over to the corporations, more tax breaks for the 1%: an evangelical candidate...burn a few women at the stake and give the rich another tax break; a JBS candidate ranting about the dangers of floride and the Tri-Lateral commission...and a tax break for the 1%. And let's not forget a White Citizens' Council candidate who argues for the down-trodden white man...and a tax break for the 1%.

Let's see...1932 to 1968, umm, that's 36 years. At my age I don't need that long. To be safe, just give me until 2024...after that, you can burn the whole place down for all I care. (Given your anti-science view, that just might be what you will do.)
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sirius black



Joined: 04 Jun 2010

PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unposter wrote:
I think Obama's first two years were fairly progressive by previous American President's standards. I think Obama got into trouble because he tried to be a new kind of non-partisan politician. So, he tried to work with the Republicans in the house which significantly increased the conservativism of his administration and led to nicknames like "Captain Capitulation." Obama seems to get this. I think you will see less and less compromise with the Republicans if Obama gets a second term. His foreign policy successes shows that Obama can be an effective leader when the Republicans aren't trying to sabotage him. I suspect we will see a much different Obama administration if he is re-elected.


I also viewed the Republicans as obstructionist. They were determiend to undermine anything Obama did. We see it now with the tax extensions. Something they want but were willing to jeapordize it over politics.

At some point you MUST compromise in Congress to get things done. Everyone has a few no compromise stances but the vast majority things you have to give something.

Problem I saw was that too many of the Republicans didn't want to budge on anything he tried to do. To make matters worse they flaunted his wanting to compromise as him being weak.

Not all the Republicans mind you but enough of them to make a mockery of things.
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Unposter



Joined: 04 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no problem with compromise (personally, I think i am quite good at it) but let the Senators and Representatives compromise. The President has to lead. He needs to show his vision of where the country needs to go. I think Obama's record on this has been spotty. Sometimes, he plays too much as a Senator and not as a President.

Obama has not been perfect. But, until I hear a better choice, he will be my candidate. I also think Obama is starting to get it. And, if given a second term, it will be better.

I worry Paul would be even worse. Can you imagine him addressing Congress and saying okay, let's end the Fed and not having even one member of Congress submitting the legislation? Okay, maybe that is a little far fetched but I think even if Paul won, which I doubt, he would have one huge uphill battle getting anything done. It would be a mess.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the two posters above. Compromise is almost always a better solution. After all, minority views need to be included. However, we find ourselves with an extremely radical faction that has captured control of the congressional GOP that does not believe in compromise.

That's a problem.

Our system is based on compromise and they reject it. There are only three alternatives: surrender to them, draw a line and refuse to give in--and risk civil disorder, or wait for them to do something so outrageous that they discredit themselves (and hope they don't capture the government before they do it and destroy the nation).

RP is just the Tea Party without the funny hat. Ideological purity is anathema to a system based on compromise.
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jangleton



Joined: 25 Nov 2011

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Paul fans - Romney or Obama? Reply with quote

weso1 wrote:
Just curious, I know a lot of the posters that hang out on the current events forum are major Ron Paul supporters. I think many of them worship at the church of Paul. But frankly, I think it's a waste of time.

The GOP is going to nominate Romney. That's just reality. The big wigs


I went to my second Paul rally today in Iowa and the crowd including me just loved him.

A Japanese news station was there interested in whether Paul will pull the troops out of Japan.

I went to the first rally on a whim since I was in the area for a concert which I ended up being late for. Part of his first trillion dollars in cuts would include the Department of Education which is alright, but I did not like his idea of putting education in the hands of parents. ( which achieved one of his many rounds of applause- but not mine )

Other than that , I really like what the man stands for especially his stance against the Patriot Act in its present form and no more overseas assistance while our country is in shambles.

I recently drove around some rural Midwestern farm towns and their former downtowns look like something in a third world country. They are just bedroom communities now but the closest cities are 60 to 100 miles away and there are no jobs there either.

Having lived in Korea for a long time and understand ( and profited from ) their prosperity I realize that we either need to get out of Korea completely or the Korean government needs to completely foot the bill for our military. ( which they do not want anyway ) Moving the base completely south of the Han River is not enough. We can use Guam for an airbase or Japan for that matter.

Our country is broke and does not have the money to subsidize countries like Korea anymore nor do we need to. As Paul pointed out, the Ugly Americans ( not his term ) money has only made the world hate us. Not a good return on our dollar.

Vote Paul


By the way it is now Romney 24% - Paul 22% - too close to call the Iowa Caucus - it could go either way but Paul is looking like a credible candidate to more and more people, and not just "young" people.
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would like to see RP do well just to see how the media would react.
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