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please help with a writing question
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raewon



Joined: 16 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:40 pm    Post subject: please help with a writing question Reply with quote

Happy New Year to everyone!

Could someone please let me know if the following sentences are correct/incorrect. For sentences that are incorrect, could you let me know why?

a) One thing I can do well is play the piano.
b) One thing I can do well is to play the piano.
c) One thing I can do well is playing the piano.

Thanks a lot.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're all ok in the sense of what would be considered normal usage, though if they appeared in a SAT/TOEC/TAPS etc... test, who knows which one(s) would be considered 'wrong'.
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


Following the linking verb is (to be), a subject complement is required.

Both b) (infinitive form), and c) (gerund), satisfy this requirement. Choice a) does not and therefore is not acceptable grammatically. In vernacular terms it is common if not accepted.

**edit** complement not compliment the subject's ego is fine.


Last edited by T-J on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's just an abbreviated version of 'I can play the piano. '

One thing I can do very well is (I can) play the piano.

If you asked someone 'what can you do very well?' and they replied

'Play the piano', would that be considered grammatically wrong?
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schwa



Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(b) & (c) are wrong. As Mr Catflap points out, rejigging the sentence gives you "can to play" & "can playing."
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raewon



Joined: 16 Jun 2009

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies.

T-J's reply seems correct, but why does option (a) seem so familiar and natural? If a large group of native speakers were to correct a student's writing with that sentence, I wonder how many would correct it.

schwa - Sorry, but I can't really understand your reply.
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akcrono



Joined: 11 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

schwa wrote:
(b) & (c) are wrong. As Mr Catflap points out, rejigging the sentence gives you "can to play" & "can playing."


I disagree here. The verb "do" means you can't reword it like that. Rewording it like that makes all the answers wrong:
can do play
can do to play
can do playing

"can play" is fine because there are 2 verbs and play is infinite. Using "do" means that "play" can't be paired with "can". It's a cleft sentence, so a gerund or infinitive won't satisfy the conditions of the sentence.

I personally think c) is the only option. To rephrase the sentence:
a) One thing I am good at is play the piano.
b) One thing I am good at is to play the piano.
c) One thing I am good at is playing the piano.

Seems clear that only c) sounds good and the structure of the 2 sentences are identical.


More info on clefts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleft_sentence
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
It's just an abbreviated version of 'I can play the piano. '

One thing I can do very well is (I can) play the piano.

If you asked someone 'what can you do very well?' and they replied

'Play the piano', would that be considered grammatically wrong?



I think you are not identifying the subject and verb of the sentence coorrectly.

The subject is thing.
The verb is is.
The object needs to be a noun or a verb acting as a noun thus the need for either the infinitive or gerund.

I can do well is an adverb clause containing a subject I and a verb do as well as the helping verb can. It describes the subject.

Substitute thing with the more specific term activity and remove the clause to see why you need the infinitive or gerund.

One activity is play the piano.
One activity is playing the piano.
One activity is to play the piano.
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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WHether or not these sentences are 'correct'' or not according to some narrowly defined grammar rule is kind of irrelevant with these examples. If a non native speaker you were teaching produced any of these sentences in spoken form it would be ridiculous and incredibly anal to 'correct' his or her English as all of them are effective in terms of communication and would be normal usage from a native speaker. That 's what annoys me so much about these kind of tests (I assume it's from a test)
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

edwardcatflap wrote:
WHether or not these sentences are 'correct'' or not according to some narrowly defined grammar rule is kind of irrelevant with these examples. If a non native speaker you were teaching produced any of these sentences in spoken form it would be ridiculous and incredibly anal to 'correct' his or her English as all of them are effective in terms of communication and would be normal usage from a native speaker. That 's what annoys me so much about these kind of tests (I assume it's from a test)


If this were true then Korea should stop hiring college grads at 2.2 and start hiring high school grads at 1.2.

Really.

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edwardcatflap



Joined: 22 Mar 2009

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don 't agree. You need to have a sound knowledge of grammar and teaching to be able to decide when it's useful to correct and when not. In this case, not
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akcrono



Joined: 11 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

T-J wrote:
edwardcatflap wrote:
It's just an abbreviated version of 'I can play the piano. '

One thing I can do very well is (I can) play the piano.

If you asked someone 'what can you do very well?' and they replied

'Play the piano', would that be considered grammatically wrong?



I think you are not identifying the subject and verb of the sentence coorrectly.

The subject is thing.
The verb is is.
The object needs to be a noun or a verb acting as a noun thus the need for either the infinitive or gerund.

I can do well is an adverb clause containing a subject I and a verb do as well as the helping verb can. It describes the subject.

Substitute thing with the more specific term activity and remove the clause to see why you need the infinitive or gerund.

One activity is play the piano.
One activity is playing the piano.
One activity is to play the piano.


The verbs for one clause are "can do". The verbs for the other clause are "is" and some conjugation of play.
The subject is "I", unless the thing is doing something to me.
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T-J



Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

akcrono wrote:
T-J wrote:
edwardcatflap wrote:
It's just an abbreviated version of 'I can play the piano. '

One thing I can do very well is (I can) play the piano.

If you asked someone 'what can you do very well?' and they replied

'Play the piano', would that be considered grammatically wrong?



I think you are not identifying the subject and verb of the sentence coorrectly.

The subject is thing.
The verb is is.
The object needs to be a noun or a verb acting as a noun thus the need for either the infinitive or gerund.

I can do well is an adverb clause containing a subject I and a verb do as well as the helping verb can. It describes the subject.

Substitute thing with the more specific term activity and remove the clause to see why you need the infinitive or gerund.

One activity is play the piano.
One activity is playing the piano.
One activity is to play the piano.


The verbs for one clause are "can do". The verbs for the other clause are "is" and some conjugation of play.
The subject is "I", unless the thing is doing something to me.



Um....No.

I stand by my explanation.
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Skill



Joined: 06 Jul 2011
Location: London

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, just from the sound of things. a) doesn't fit the criteria. (and you don't need a 2.2 to be able to tell that) c) sounds correct to me, but I'm curious why wouldn't b), according to grammatical rule, be acceptable.
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BreakfastInBed



Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Location: Gyeonggi do

PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a prescriptive grammar rule to cite, but I throw in with Mr. Catflap and Schwa on this one.

c) means that whatever it is that you can do well is somehow miraculously playing the piano. At least it could be interpreted that way.

b) seems like an option, but I don't like it. I feel like the phrase following 'is' should be able to replace the 'do' placeholder to yield a grammatical 'can' statement. After all, that is what the speaker/writer is actually interested in expressing. I think this might be what Schwa meant when he mentioned rejigging things.

That leaves a), as Raewon pointed out, a very natural sounding statement. The most natural to my ears.

I understand T-J's point, but for me, semantically speaking, grammatical precedence should go to the 'I can' phrase over the 'One thing... is' phrase. The 'One thing' is the thing I 'can do,' which is 'play the piano.' In this case, the 'thing' we're interested in is not an activity or a hobby, but the action that completes the 'I can' phrase.

My explanation may be wrong, but my instincts tell me a) is the best answer.
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