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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| "There needs to be a major change in thinking towards soldiers in the first place," he said. "They are citizens in uniform, and I think there needs to be a better awareness of their basic rights."[/i] |
I agree, the military appears to think they have a licence to victimise, bully, demoralise and abuse the weak and vulnerable under the pretense of projecting strength.
Its also kind of absurd in Korea that they raise kids from birth to believe they are some kind of priveleged royalty then suddenly treat them them like animals on the first day of military service.
I mean come on..if you're going to treat people that badly then you really should start toughening them up earlier on. Provide some discipline in the home and in the schools would be a good idea. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Questions and discussions about these type of issues need to be raised. Nitpicking about the title, interpretations of lexicon used in the article, allegations of some misplaced agenda, simply are attempts to take away/deflect from the basic issue. |
What are the suicide rates in the Military here compared to the general population?
Is there really that much of a dramatic difference?
So what is "the basic issue"? Suicides? Bullying? Or are you trying to steer us in another direction...
| Quote: |
| The basic pattern that emerges is that certain posters are afraid and uncomfortable with questions being raised about situations which call into question the hegemony of Western military-industrial complex/geo-political-related institutions and practices. When it is clearly seen what human misery and pollution/depletion of the earth's resources results from these practices, one can only wonder at why anyone who isn't somehow tied into the money-flow of such destructive practices would continue to support such policies. |
and once again... you not-so-subtle agenda surfaces. |
Talk about steering...this world is being steered into a cess pit by multinationals and their military-industrial cronies. Your jumping on anyone opposed to that reveals your not-so-subtle agenda. I'm quite clear in saying I'm not on board with that, and that it's not my thing to stand silently on the sidelines while everyone is made a victim of their agenda. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Stout = VisitorQ? |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, I've been wondering who he is.
On topic though... I'm honestly curious about the suicide/crime rate in the k-military compared to the general population. People keep saying how there's a big issue there, but I'd like to know if it's actually backed up by statistics? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
Its also kind of absurd in Korea that they raise kids from birth to believe they are some kind of priveleged royalty then suddenly treat them them like animals on the first day of military service. |
Do you actually believe this or are you posting more of your exaggerated commentary as fact to support your agenda?
I must have been hallucinating all those times I see kids working in their parents' store or being pressured into studying hard or having to sublimate their own desires to family ones. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:55 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| [Talk about steering...this world is being steered into a cess pit by multinationals and their military-industrial cronies. Your jumping on anyone opposed to that reveals your not-so-subtle agenda. I'm quite clear in saying I'm not on board with that, and that it's not my thing to stand silently on the sidelines while everyone is made a victim of their agenda. |
Hate to break it to you fella, but whether you stand silently or not on the sidelines will not make one iota of difference to the "multinationals and their military-industrial cronies". |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:03 am Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Questions and discussions about these type of issues need to be raised. Nitpicking about the title, interpretations of lexicon used in the article, allegations of some misplaced agenda, simply are attempts to take away/deflect from the basic issue. |
What are the suicide rates in the Military here compared to the general population?
Is there really that much of a dramatic difference?
. |
http://www.korea-is-one.org/spip.php?article1576
| Quote: |
According to ministry figures, the number of military deaths has gradually dwindled over the past few years, from 164 in 2001, 158 in 2002 and 150 in 2003 to 134 in 2004. Of these, 69 people took their own lives in 2001, 79 in 2002, 69 in 2003 and 66 in 2004.
Cases of physical violence and sexual harassment in military barracks also fell to 2,277 last year, from 2,507 in 2003 and 2,483 in 2002, the data showed.
Analysts project a different picture, however. "The statistics may be a welcome sign, but human rights abuses in the military is still a serious problem,�said Lee Gye-su, a law professor at Kunkuk University in Seoul.
Lee cited other records showing that the number of soldiers who suffer from mental diseases or are kept in on-base detention centers without trial remains unchanged.
According to a Defense Ministry report, 1,299 soldiers were discharged from military hospitals in 2001 after receiving treatment for mental problems, compared with 1,110 in 2002, 1,170 in 2003 and 1,440 in 2004.
A separate ministry report also showed that the number of soldiers who served in military confinement facilities, called "yongchang," stood at 10,690 in 2000, 11,580 in 2001, 11,525 in 2002, 12,074 in 2003 and 11,921 in 2004. Soldiers who commit minor offenses can be temporarily detained for up to 15 days without trial.
�The suicide rate is lower than that of civilians in the same age group, but we have to realize that the suicide percentage in relation to the total casualties in the military is rising. Also, they killed themselves for single reason, which is hardship in their military lives,�said Lee, who participated in a 2003 government investigation of human rights of rank-and-file soldiers. |
This is from 2005...however it seems to have crept upwards again since then
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/17/world/la-fg-south-korea-marines-20110717
| Quote: |
| Also, the number of suicides by South Korean military personnel has risen over the last six years, according to a new report. Sixty-five members of the military took their lives in 2005. That number rose to 82 in 2010 |
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:14 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| [Talk about steering...this world is being steered into a cess pit by multinationals and their military-industrial cronies. Your jumping on anyone opposed to that reveals your not-so-subtle agenda. I'm quite clear in saying I'm not on board with that, and that it's not my thing to stand silently on the sidelines while everyone is made a victim of their agenda. |
Hate to break it to you fella, but whether you stand silently or not on the sidelines will not make one iota of difference to the "multinationals and their military-industrial cronies". |
Neither do your words make any mark here.
And a well-lived life is defined by what you've done for the planet as well as yourself and others. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:51 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| [Talk about steering...this world is being steered into a cess pit by multinationals and their military-industrial cronies. Your jumping on anyone opposed to that reveals your not-so-subtle agenda. I'm quite clear in saying I'm not on board with that, and that it's not my thing to stand silently on the sidelines while everyone is made a victim of their agenda. |
Hate to break it to you fella, but whether you stand silently or not on the sidelines will not make one iota of difference to the "multinationals and their military-industrial cronies". |
Neither do your words make any mark here.
. |
Well my dear Don Quixote, they don't have to. I'm not the one tilting at windmills. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| [Talk about steering...this world is being steered into a cess pit by multinationals and their military-industrial cronies. Your jumping on anyone opposed to that reveals your not-so-subtle agenda. I'm quite clear in saying I'm not on board with that, and that it's not my thing to stand silently on the sidelines while everyone is made a victim of their agenda. |
Hate to break it to you fella, but whether you stand silently or not on the sidelines will not make one iota of difference to the "multinationals and their military-industrial cronies". |
Neither do your words make any mark here.
. |
Well my dear Don Quixote, they don't have to. I'm not the one tilting at windmills. |
Ho-ho. Maybe you'd be more comfortable back in the days when companies were allowed to blatantly dump toxic waste into the environment with impunity.
Fortunately there were those who brought attention to the issue which helped get some regulations in place. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| [Talk about steering...this world is being steered into a cess pit by multinationals and their military-industrial cronies. Your jumping on anyone opposed to that reveals your not-so-subtle agenda. I'm quite clear in saying I'm not on board with that, and that it's not my thing to stand silently on the sidelines while everyone is made a victim of their agenda. |
Hate to break it to you fella, but whether you stand silently or not on the sidelines will not make one iota of difference to the "multinationals and their military-industrial cronies". |
Neither do your words make any mark here.
. |
Well my dear Don Quixote, they don't have to. I'm not the one tilting at windmills. |
Ho-ho. Maybe you'd be more comfortable back in the days when companies were allowed to blatantly dump toxic waste into the environment with impunity.
Fortunately there were those who brought attention to the issue which helped get some regulations in place. |
And where did they bring people's attention to the issue? Dave's of course! |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| [Talk about steering...this world is being steered into a cess pit by multinationals and their military-industrial cronies. Your jumping on anyone opposed to that reveals your not-so-subtle agenda. I'm quite clear in saying I'm not on board with that, and that it's not my thing to stand silently on the sidelines while everyone is made a victim of their agenda. |
Hate to break it to you fella, but whether you stand silently or not on the sidelines will not make one iota of difference to the "multinationals and their military-industrial cronies". |
Neither do your words make any mark here.
. |
Well my dear Don Quixote, they don't have to. I'm not the one tilting at windmills. |
Ho-ho. Maybe you'd be more comfortable back in the days when companies were allowed to blatantly dump toxic waste into the environment with impunity.
Fortunately there were those who brought attention to the issue which helped get some regulations in place. |
And where did they bring people's attention to the issue? Dave's of course! |
Last time I checked the users of this site were people.
People have the capability to go out into the world and make a difference.
Or in your case...ironically, exactly the type of person you are refering to  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| [Talk about steering...this world is being steered into a cess pit by multinationals and their military-industrial cronies. Your jumping on anyone opposed to that reveals your not-so-subtle agenda. I'm quite clear in saying I'm not on board with that, and that it's not my thing to stand silently on the sidelines while everyone is made a victim of their agenda. |
Hate to break it to you fella, but whether you stand silently or not on the sidelines will not make one iota of difference to the "multinationals and their military-industrial cronies". |
Neither do your words make any mark here.
. |
Well my dear Don Quixote, they don't have to. I'm not the one tilting at windmills. |
Ho-ho. Maybe you'd be more comfortable back in the days when companies were allowed to blatantly dump toxic waste into the environment with impunity.
Fortunately there were those who brought attention to the issue which helped get some regulations in place. |
And where did they bring people's attention to the issue? Dave's of course! |
Last time I checked the users of this site were people.
People have the capability to go out into the world and make a difference.
Or in your case...ironically, exactly the type of person you are refering to |
Last I checked, none of the users of Dave had a single thing to do with bringing those regulations about. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| [Talk about steering...this world is being steered into a cess pit by multinationals and their military-industrial cronies. Your jumping on anyone opposed to that reveals your not-so-subtle agenda. I'm quite clear in saying I'm not on board with that, and that it's not my thing to stand silently on the sidelines while everyone is made a victim of their agenda. |
Hate to break it to you fella, but whether you stand silently or not on the sidelines will not make one iota of difference to the "multinationals and their military-industrial cronies". |
Neither do your words make any mark here.
. |
Well my dear Don Quixote, they don't have to. I'm not the one tilting at windmills. |
Ho-ho. Maybe you'd be more comfortable back in the days when companies were allowed to blatantly dump toxic waste into the environment with impunity.
Fortunately there were those who brought attention to the issue which helped get some regulations in place. |
And where did they bring people's attention to the issue? Dave's of course! |
Last time I checked the users of this site were people.
People have the capability to go out into the world and make a difference.
Or in your case...ironically, exactly the type of person you are refering to |
Last I checked, none of the users of Dave had a single thing to do with bringing those regulations about. |
Like they'd tell u if they had contributed to making something happen.
And let's say no one on here 'till now had lifted a finger..still doesn't diminish their capacity to do something in the future.
Unless they buy into your way of thinking. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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It's interesting to me to see that your true agenda has come out here. Instead of actually commenting on crimes/violence/suicides in the military... you're more concerned with "sticking it to the man".
/shakes head
Why not comment on the actual issue you were so passionate about?
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Captain Corea wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Questions and discussions about these type of issues need to be raised. Nitpicking about the title, interpretations of lexicon used in the article, allegations of some misplaced agenda, simply are attempts to take away/deflect from the basic issue. |
What are the suicide rates in the Military here compared to the general population?
Is there really that much of a dramatic difference?
. |
http://www.korea-is-one.org/spip.php?article1576
| Quote: |
According to ministry figures, the number of military deaths has gradually dwindled over the past few years, from 164 in 2001, 158 in 2002 and 150 in 2003 to 134 in 2004. Of these, 69 people took their own lives in 2001, 79 in 2002, 69 in 2003 and 66 in 2004.
Cases of physical violence and sexual harassment in military barracks also fell to 2,277 last year, from 2,507 in 2003 and 2,483 in 2002, the data showed.
Analysts project a different picture, however. "The statistics may be a welcome sign, but human rights abuses in the military is still a serious problem,�said Lee Gye-su, a law professor at Kunkuk University in Seoul.
Lee cited other records showing that the number of soldiers who suffer from mental diseases or are kept in on-base detention centers without trial remains unchanged.
According to a Defense Ministry report, 1,299 soldiers were discharged from military hospitals in 2001 after receiving treatment for mental problems, compared with 1,110 in 2002, 1,170 in 2003 and 1,440 in 2004.
A separate ministry report also showed that the number of soldiers who served in military confinement facilities, called "yongchang," stood at 10,690 in 2000, 11,580 in 2001, 11,525 in 2002, 12,074 in 2003 and 11,921 in 2004. Soldiers who commit minor offenses can be temporarily detained for up to 15 days without trial.
�The suicide rate is lower than that of civilians in the same age group, but we have to realize that the suicide percentage in relation to the total casualties in the military is rising. Also, they killed themselves for single reason, which is hardship in their military lives,�said Lee, who participated in a 2003 government investigation of human rights of rank-and-file soldiers. |
This is from 2005...however it seems to have crept upwards again since then
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/17/world/la-fg-south-korea-marines-20110717
| Quote: |
| Also, the number of suicides by South Korean military personnel has risen over the last six years, according to a new report. Sixty-five members of the military took their lives in 2005. That number rose to 82 in 2010 |
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