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isitts
Joined: 25 Dec 2008
Location: Korea
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 Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Gepik now demanding that we have a TESOL certificate? |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| isitts wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
An excess of American economic refugees applying for jobs means they can ask for higher credentials and offer lower wages for them.
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When you consider the conditions that actual refugees are generally escaping from, your use of the word could come across as insulting. Americans that are in more of a refugee state are most likely occupying their nearest major city and are unable to logistically get over to Korea.
And I�m pretty sure the Americans aren�t the only ones running over there to escape a bad economy. This is not unilateralism.  Even if there are more coming from America than from other countries, that�s really nothing new. |
You'll note that I used the term ECONOMIC REFUGEES and not simple refugee.
Definition of 'Economic Refugee'
A person who leaves their home country for a new country, in search of better job prospects and higher living standards. Economic refugees see little opportunity in their own countries to escape poverty and are willing to start over in a new country, for the chance at a better life.
How is an American grad, buried in student debt, with no real job prospects and no hope of meaningful employment any time in the near future, heading offshore for work not an economic refugee?
And the numbers of Americans (both recent grads and experienced teachers) that have applied for jobs in the schools I am affiliated with (in Korea and Thailand) have increased more than 10-fold since 2008 whereas the numbers of Brits, Aussies, Canuks and Kiwis has remained fairly constant. (admittedly, the numbers from Ireland have also gone up but not to the same degree as those from the States).
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It�s not always what you say, ttom, but how you say it. And if what you said above is your argument, then I would argue that virtually all EFL teachers have always been economic refugees, as has been stated over and over on these forums long before the economic downturn. So there�s hardly need to make mention of it now, is there?
There are some that think that �imperialism� in the term �cultural imperialism� creates a gross distortion of what cultural imperialism is, even though it, too, can be found in the dictionary.
Also, there�s really no direct connection between the influx of Americans and GEPIK requiring a TESOL certificate. The job description hasn�t changed. The lowering of wages, sure. But not the requirement for a TESOL cert. |
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Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
If I was in charge of the E2 visa i'd tailor it to match the US unemployment rate.
US Unemployment 0%= Accept anyone with a pulse
US unemployment 3%= apostilled CBC, degree
US unemployment 6%= apostilled CBC, degree, 1 yrs exp, and CELTA.
US unemployment 9% = apostilled CBC, degree, 2 yrs exp, CELTA
US unemployment 10 %= apostilled CBC, degree in English/ linguistics/ education, 2 yrs exp and a CELTA. |
And if I am not American? |
Americans make up over 2/3s of the E2 eligible population. Coupled with Koreans' preference for North American teachers, the other nationalities don't really influence supply and demand all that much. |
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Carbon
Joined: 28 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Otherside wrote: |
Americans make up over 2/3s of the E2 eligible population. Coupled with Koreans' preference for North American teachers, the other nationalities don't really influence supply and demand all that much. |
How very American. 
Canada is also in North America - perhaps you could call it the "North" in the equation to make it easier.  |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:00 pm Post subject: Re: Gepik now demanding that we have a TESOL certificate? |
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| isitts wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
You'll note that I used the term ECONOMIC REFUGEES and not simple refugee.
Definition of 'Economic Refugee'
A person who leaves their home country for a new country, in search of better job prospects and higher living standards. Economic refugees see little opportunity in their own countries to escape poverty and are willing to start over in a new country, for the chance at a better life.
How is an American grad, buried in student debt, with no real job prospects and no hope of meaningful employment any time in the near future, heading offshore for work not an economic refugee?
And the numbers of Americans (both recent grads and experienced teachers) that have applied for jobs in the schools I am affiliated with (in Korea and Thailand) have increased more than 10-fold since 2008 whereas the numbers of Brits, Aussies, Canuks and Kiwis has remained fairly constant. (admittedly, the numbers from Ireland have also gone up but not to the same degree as those from the States).
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It�s not always what you say, ttom, but how you say it. And if what you said above is your argument, then I would argue that virtually all EFL teachers have always been economic refugees, as has been stated over and over on these forums long before the economic downturn. So there�s hardly need to make mention of it now, is there?
Also, there�s really no direct connection between the influx of Americans and GEPIK requiring a TESOL certificate. The job description hasn�t changed. The lowering of wages, sure. But not the requirement for a TESOL cert. |
I would like to differentiate between those recent grads doing a "gap year" (the historical source of EFL teachers) before beginning their careers
AND
those Americans who are now heading offshore (laid off teachers, recent grads with no hope of employment, etc) because there IS NO OTHER OPTION.
The number of the former hasn't changed much at all but the number of the latter has increased by an order of magnitude.
AND there is a direct correlation between the large numbers of applicants and the increase in requirements from a degree to a degree and TEFL cert.
5 years go GEPIK couldn't find enough warm bodies with a degree and EPIK was so far down in its recruitment that they found a work-around to get by the degree requirement to get warm bodies out into the provinces.
NOW they have both increased their requirements and reduced the remuneration packages since they have lower budgets to work with, a demand by parents for NETS, and an excess of applicants to choose from so they can afford to be more selective.
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ThingsComeAround
Joined: 07 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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What gets me is that they will continue to lower benefits (your vacation is going next) and pay while they keep us cooped up like chickens sitting on our hands for warmth. If any of these bean counters had sense they could let us increase our OT potential- give us something to do! OR let us leave earlier *NO deskwarming & no classes you GO HOME*
They ask that NETs get TESOL/CELTA certs however KETs dont do this. That's a disaster. They ask KETs with no natural English speaking ability to re-make the same books with new errors, disaster. Don't split the classes up according to ability, not making extra PAID classes for students, disaster. It will still be the NETs fault.  |
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Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Carbon wrote: |
| Otherside wrote: |
Americans make up over 2/3s of the E2 eligible population. Coupled with Koreans' preference for North American teachers, the other nationalities don't really influence supply and demand all that much. |
How very American.
Canada is also in North America - perhaps you could call it the "North" in the equation to make it easier. |
I'm not an American.
Koreans prefer North American teachers. I'm well aware that Canada is part of North America, yet with a population of ~34mill vs the US's 300+Mill, Canada has far less of an effect on supply and demand than the US. |
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jurassic82
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Location: Somewhere!!!!
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| Otherside wrote: |
| Carbon wrote: |
| Julius wrote: |
If I was in charge of the E2 visa i'd tailor it to match the US unemployment rate.
US Unemployment 0%= Accept anyone with a pulse
US unemployment 3%= apostilled CBC, degree
US unemployment 6%= apostilled CBC, degree, 1 yrs exp, and CELTA.
US unemployment 9% = apostilled CBC, degree, 2 yrs exp, CELTA
US unemployment 10 %= apostilled CBC, degree in English/ linguistics/ education, 2 yrs exp and a CELTA. |
And if I am not American? |
Americans make up over 2/3s of the E2 eligible population. Coupled with Koreans' preference for North American teachers, the other nationalities don't really influence supply and demand all that much. |
@Ttompatz, Couldn't it possibly be that the reason there are more Americans is because we have a population that is much larger than the other countries that Korea recruits teachers from? I have no problem calling myself an economic refugee. I know plenty of other British, Irish and Canadians that would say the same thing. I could be wrong but I think Australia and New Zealand aren't as screwed as America. Things are pretty bad back home.
What should be kept in mind though is that because there are more teachers coming doesn't mean that all of them of are your average gap year backpacker type. These days I am meeting a lot more certified teachers and teachers with MA's and experience. Being a teacher back in the States these days can be rough as many schools are making the class sizes larger, cutting benefits and in some districts teachers are having to take pay cuts. I can see why GEPIK is requiring more qualifications these days. It makes sense considering the influx of more qualified teachers. To the OP it is pretty easy to do a TEFL and you might actually enjoy it. I am working on a TESOL now in Seoul at a University. It is really useful and interesting even after 5 years here. Anyways, best of luck in your job search. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| jurassic82 wrote: |
@Ttompatz, Couldn't it possibly be that the reason there are more Americans is because we have a population that is much larger than the other countries that Korea recruits teachers from? I have no problem calling myself an economic refugee. I know plenty of other British, Irish and Canadians that would say the same thing. I could be wrong but I think Australia and New Zealand aren't as screwed as America. Things are pretty bad back home.
What should be kept in mind though is that because there are more teachers coming doesn't mean that all of them of are your average gap year backpacker type. These days I am meeting a lot more certified teachers and teachers with MA's and experience. Being a teacher back in the States these days can be rough as many schools are making the class sizes larger, cutting benefits and in some districts teachers are having to take pay cuts. I can see why GEPIK is requiring more qualifications these days. It makes sense considering the influx of more qualified teachers. To the OP it is pretty easy to do a TEFL and you might actually enjoy it. I am working on a TESOL now in Seoul at a University. It is really useful and interesting even after 5 years here. Anyways, best of luck in your job search. |
If there hadn't been a 10-fold increase in applicants from the States I might agree...
BUT where the numbers of applicants from the other 6 countries has remained fairly stable since 2008 (and prior) the number of applications that have crossed my desk coming from the States has ballooned by a factor of 10 (or more).
Again, unlike the traditional source of "gap year" applicants (which has remained relatively stable) the number of "OTHER" applicants from the States has jumped dramatically.
Why would people go to the time, trouble, expense and effort of becoming certified teachers (we're talking B.Ed, M.Ed and home country certifications) at home just to go into EFL as entry level Assistant Language Teachers in places like Korea, Japan and Thailand.
They are not gap year travelers.
They are not skilled workers seeking different experiences.
They are not academics on sabbatical doing research or working to add to their knowledge base.
They ARE economic refugees.
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Can anyone recommend an online TEFL course? Has anyone used the one recommended by Korvia recruiters? It's called TEFL Academy. Has anyone completed that course? Is it of any use outside of Korea?
Thank you kindly in advance,
Smith |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
Can anyone recommend an online TEFL course? Has anyone used the one recommended by Korvia recruiters? It's called TEFL Academy. Has anyone completed that course? Is it of any use outside of Korea?
Thank you kindly in advance,
Smith |
Find the cheapest one you can that is 100 hours or more.
It won't make any difference for employment purposes in the ROK.
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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^ unless you are applying to Gepik. What about for jobs outside Korea. Is it recommended to have a Tesol certificate if applying to, say, jobs in the Middle East? I don't know if I want to do a 120 hour course just for Gepik -where I already worked for four years.  |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
| ^ unless you are applying to Gepik. What about for jobs outside Korea. Is it recommended to have a Tesol certificate if applying to, say, jobs in the Middle East? I don't know if I want to do a 120 hour course just for Gepik -where I already worked for four years. |
If you have what it takes (in terms of other credentials) to land a job in the ME then get a CELTA, Trinity or SIT cert TESOL. Anything else would be eleventy-seventh best in their eyes.
About the only places that even look at an on-line course are Korea and China and they really don't care about where it comes from as long as you have one. (most jobs in China would accept a TESOL cert from the "Photoshop" TEFL program).
If not Korea or China then look around for one with 120 hours AND a minimum of 6 hours of observed practicum with REAL students (not peers).
There ARE good ones out there and they don't break the bank.
Just a FYI, a CELTA in BKK with the room/board option will cost you $2100 and without = $1700. (decent) Generic courses run about $750-1000 + room/board.
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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: |
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For what it is worth, I totally agree with Ttompatz on this one. I've seen a dramatic increase in fairly well credentialed Americans, many of them laid off U.S. public school teachers or teachers who have quit, flooding the market.
I'd say that is the reality and see no reason to describe it in any other way. |
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creeper1
Joined: 30 Jan 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| who'sYourDaddy wrote: |
| I could have done the job after high school. |
That may be so but the whole point of being an employer is to acquire the best candidates for the job possible, is it not?
Why make do with cotton when you can have silk?
If I was in charge of the E2 visa i'd tailor it to match the US unemployment rate.
US Unemployment 0%= Accept anyone with a pulse
US unemployment 3%= apostilled CBC, degree
US unemployment 6%= apostilled CBC, degree, 1 yrs exp, and CELTA.
US unemployment 9% = apostilled CBC, degree, 2 yrs exp, CELTA
US unemployment 10 %= apostilled CBC, degree in English/ linguistics/ education, 2 yrs exp and a CELTA. |
Typical yank. The world revolves around us attitude.
What about the UK, Ireland, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa?
Yanks don't own the English language.
Thank God that country's wealth and power are in terminal decline.  |
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alongway
Joined: 02 Jan 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Koreans prefer North American teachers. I'm well aware that Canada is part of North America, yet with a population of ~34mill vs the US's 300+Mill, Canada has far less of an effect on supply and demand than the US. |
Despite that, last time I saw numbers, Canadians made up a much larger percentage per capita than the US did. Something like 11,000 US teachers and 7 or 8000 Canadian teachers. |
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