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Is it really as hard as they say?
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minos



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you apply during the hiring season it's much easier....back in the day, it didn't matter year around.


Times30 wrote:
Working in big cities are highly overrated. Sure there's more shinny lights and things to do but there are also things that can go sour.

For one, more noise, more bumping and more people. Second, prices are MUCH higher. As an example, in Daegu I'd pay $4 for a meal. Around Seoul (I'm not even in downtown gangnam or anything, you'll pay double around $8. Imagine spending twice your monthly income on stuff.

You can be adamant about where you work but it also comes at a cost. Although, being totally dead in the middle of the sticks has it's downsides, it can also be a positive thing. You live healthier... the air in the cities are BAD. I mean, REAL bad. It's a consideration. Also, if you are too adamant... you may just be dropped from even being considered working for public school. If you have alternatives, then stick to your guns, but if you're unemployed and this is your only job.... try not to be too inflexible. They have their pick of the litter.

But don't overlook the benefits of being out in the country. In my experience people in the country are nicer and more polite (This can vary a lot). You can go on hikes, live cheaper, and it's not so bad if you really think about it. You're free to do a spiritual journey...


I've lived around and traveled the country:

Food prices are mostly the same....country side BBQ and hoff prices are cheaper. Everything else is the same. Also the travel costs and time of living in the sticks negate any savings. There is no subway or even KTX train stations in some towns. Having a car or motorcycle becomes much more of a necessity. Distance between towns means taxi prices jump much higher.

Traveling to seoul for nightlife will destroy savings...countryside nightlife is mostly non-existant since it has very few young people(lopsided age distribution).

Biggest savings come from Rent....however most newbies have that part by their company so it's moot point aside from size of apartment.

People are not more polite....I speak korean...it's same or worse.
Some folks are more impressed by you being a foreigner.
Unlike back home; the more poorer, un-educated, ghetto, and useless a person is the more likely they end up in the countryside.

Noise is same or worse becuase apartments in the countryside are less sound proofed. You'll only hear noice in Seoul if you live next to a road or red light district. Otherwise it's quiet. I've had noise complaints against me for watching movies!

I heard plenty of weeping, dog barking, arguments, and trot singing in my rural apartment 24/7.


The only reasons I've had friends leave seoul(korean ones) is becuase:

They couldn't get a decent job in the city....End of discussion.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

minos wrote:
If you apply during the hiring season it's much easier....back in the day, it didn't matter year around.


Times30 wrote:
Working in big cities are highly overrated. Sure there's more shinny lights and things to do but there are also things that can go sour.

For one, more noise, more bumping and more people. Second, prices are MUCH higher. As an example, in Daegu I'd pay $4 for a meal. Around Seoul (I'm not even in downtown gangnam or anything, you'll pay double around $8. Imagine spending twice your monthly income on stuff.

You can be adamant about where you work but it also comes at a cost. Although, being totally dead in the middle of the sticks has it's downsides, it can also be a positive thing. You live healthier... the air in the cities are BAD. I mean, REAL bad. It's a consideration. Also, if you are too adamant... you may just be dropped from even being considered working for public school. If you have alternatives, then stick to your guns, but if you're unemployed and this is your only job.... try not to be too inflexible. They have their pick of the litter.

But don't overlook the benefits of being out in the country. In my experience people in the country are nicer and more polite (This can vary a lot). You can go on hikes, live cheaper, and it's not so bad if you really think about it. You're free to do a spiritual journey...


I've lived around and traveled the country:

Food prices are mostly the same....country side BBQ and hoff prices are cheaper. Everything else is the same. Also the travel costs and time of living in the sticks negate any savings. There is no subway or even KTX train stations in some towns. Having a car or motorcycle becomes much more of a necessity. Distance between towns means taxi prices jump much higher.

Traveling to seoul for nightlife will destroy savings...countryside nightlife is mostly non-existant since it has very few young people(lopsided age distribution).

Biggest savings come from Rent....however most newbies have that part by their company so it's moot point aside from size of apartment.

People are not more polite....I speak korean...it's same or worse.
Some folks are more impressed by you being a foreigner.
Unlike back home; the more poorer, un-educated, ghetto, and useless a person is the more likely they end up in the countryside.

Noise is same or worse becuase apartments in the countryside are less sound proofed. You'll only hear noice in Seoul if you live next to a road or red light district. Otherwise it's quiet. I've had noise complaints against me for watching movies!

I heard plenty of weeping, dog barking, arguments, and trot singing in my rural apartment 24/7.


The only reasons I've had friends leave seoul(korean ones) is becuase:

They couldn't get a decent job in the city....End of discussion.



I agree with Times30

Living in the country is vastly underrated.

And no prices are not the same even in grocery stores. I've lived in Daejeon and Ulsan for a year so yes I can compare.

Nightlife yes well if that's important to someone then yes traveling to a city and back WILL deplete your savings. Honestly though I'd rather spend time alone with my S.O, or even with a good book.


Apartment size. In Daejeon and Ulsan I had a one room apartment. In every P.S job I've had (including the current one) I've had a 2 BR apartment plus a real kitchen and living room.

I've found people to be more polite...as I posted before I've had strangers tell kids off for not greeting me politely.

Maybe I'm just lucky but I've rarely experienced a lot of noise. Certainly nothing like in the bigger cities.


Finally just as an aside Mr. minos...according to you you've been here about 3 years (give or take a few months).

Quote:
A bit long.....but I need help

I speak ok korean at best and been here 2 years, but I need some serious Korean Nunchi Advice. It's beyond my Level.


You wrote the above on Dec 10 2010. 2011 makes 3 years and now we are in February of 2012.

So when you state "I've lived around and traveled the country" one has to wonder just what is the extent of your experience. Traveling to and from a place doesn't really give one the flavor of it Living there does. Being that most contracts are for one year...that means you've lived in what 3, 4 places? Not to mention you've lived in what ONE rural place?

Whereas this is my 12th year in Korea. Most of them in small towns or rural areas. I'd say my experience trumps yours by an order of magnitudes. Not trying to be rude or start a flame war here...just going by your own previous posts.
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minos



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've driven and motorcycled the country three times from cost to coast. Once did an entire coastline tour of Korea by bike. Visited more towns and cities than most Koreans will ever do in their lifetime.

I live in two rural locations. once working for the college so I had plenty of time to tour even more of the countryside.

Prices for food may be cheaper, not significantly so. Restaurant prices are usually the same everywhere give or take $1-2. Biggest price difference was in bars and hookers. This was balanced out by higher transportation fees(no subway, longer taxi distances, etc.).

Apartments were bigger though.

Most young people will be heading to Seoul or a nearby city for nightlife. If you can't take a girl home, you have to rent a love motel for $40-$60 a night. That will eat up your "food" saving alone.

People were much more hick and surly in the countryside. Some were nicer...others were crazier. In Korean, the language was usually much more ruder, peppered with curse words and generally less classy than Seoul. Maybe I'm just used to Seoul hospitality and class.

However that was gangwon-do. The southern coast line(including Busan) is much more laid back and nicer. I hear Jeju-do is nicer as well.

However at the end of the day, most small towns and cities in Korea are imitations of Seoul with similar attitudes, buildings, food, and culture.
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proverbs



Joined: 28 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i remember a few years back my friend and i started looking for jobs at similar times. i really like Bundang, so i looked around the lower Gyeonggi area, and my friend ONLY WANTED SEOUL. about 3 days in my search i had a few interview offers around Bundang and Suji. a week later, i had about 5 interview offers. a few days later, i had a job. on the other hand, a month passed by for my friend and he had no interviews. he finally gave in and started looking outside of Seoul. he got a job in Suwon in about a week. he loved it so much there that he got his next job in Suwon.

i don't know why people get so caught up with 'Seoul'. if i want to go to Seoul on the weekends, i can get there in 20 minutes.
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3DR



Joined: 24 May 2009

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Suwon is a nice place. I worked there my first, was in Incheon for my second, and miraculously got one of the 24 spots for Incheon EPIK this year (docs were pretty late).

People do get caught up on Seoul, but it will depend on where you live. Hongdae is of course the main hangout, and if you're on the eastern or northern side, it could still take you 40 minutes to get there. In my area in Incheon last year, I could get there in 25 minutes by bus if there was no traffic (bus was right in front of my apartment).

I will say that a plus to living in Seoul would be the ability to take a cab for 10,000 won back home after being out all night.
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The Floating World



Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
For one, more noise, more bumping and more people. Second, prices are MUCH higher. As an example, in Daegu I'd pay $4 for a meal. Around Seoul (I'm not even in downtown gangnam or anything, you'll pay double around $8. Imagine spending twice your monthly income on stuff.


This.is.not.true.

Korean food costs the same everywhere.
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northway



Joined: 05 Jul 2010

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Floating World wrote:
Quote:
For one, more noise, more bumping and more people. Second, prices are MUCH higher. As an example, in Daegu I'd pay $4 for a meal. Around Seoul (I'm not even in downtown gangnam or anything, you'll pay double around $8. Imagine spending twice your monthly income on stuff.


This.is.not.true.

Korean food costs the same everywhere.


Yeah, I definitely haven't found any savings in any of my travels outside of the Seoul area, despite the ranting and raving here as to cheaper food in the provinces (a fallacy that likely starts with recruiters and works its way on down).
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The Floating World



Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here

PostPosted: Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

northway wrote:
The Floating World wrote:
Quote:
For one, more noise, more bumping and more people. Second, prices are MUCH higher. As an example, in Daegu I'd pay $4 for a meal. Around Seoul (I'm not even in downtown gangnam or anything, you'll pay double around $8. Imagine spending twice your monthly income on stuff.


This.is.not.true.

Korean food costs the same everywhere.


Yeah, I definitely haven't found any savings in any of my travels outside of the Seoul area, despite the ranting and raving here as to cheaper food in the provinces (a fallacy that likely starts with recruiters and works its way on down).


I know.

OP - it all boils down to temprement. I love actiob, hustle, bustle and cities.

I did a year in the countryside and it turned me into a near alcoholic out of boredom and isolation.

Some people loved the peace and quiet of it.

I recently got moved from downtown Busan which I loved to a small island 30 mins away by bus and feel crappy and don't sleep as well and drink more now out of boredom again etc.

Then I have a friend on theisland who is an ex high powered business guy who loves it as it is peace and quiet he was looking for.

Ilsan, Bundang, Suwon, Hannam, all as good as living in Seoul and will get you there by 30 - 45 mins by bus / subway.
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Suwon23



Joined: 24 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like I've missed most of this discussion, but just in case anyone's interested, I lived in Suwon and now live in Seoul.

First off, the difficulty of getting a job. I do think recruiters try to steer you away from major cities if you're new, but it is by no means difficult to get a job there. If you go to most hagwons in Seoul, probably at least a third of their teaching staff will be on their first year. Getting a job in Korea is about as difficult as falling off a three-legged chair. Getting a job in Seoul might be slightly harder, but it's still very easy. Your recruiter might be a dick, though, so keep that in mind.

Secondly, quality of life. Some people have mentioned the downsides of living in Seoul. In my limited experience, I have noticed not a single one of them. Prices so far are only imperceptibly higher than in Suwon. And as for crowds and noise, obviously if you don't like those things you wouldn't be trying to live in Seoul in the first place. I'm a city boy so it doesn't bother me. Some people are more country folk. You know who you are. There is more to do, but there's usually some things to do in the country as well. The main advantage of Seoul is transportation. No more taking the KTX into town for the weekend. You can literally walk or take a taxi to the bar that all your friends are meeting at. It's that convenience that you're really paying for in Seoul. As for housing, I'm paying 500,000 for a large officetel right next to a subway station and a park in a nice neighborhood, so people who tell you Seoul is expensive shouldn't be taken seriously.

Hope this was helpful to someone out there.
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proverbs



Joined: 28 Apr 2009

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i lived in Bundang/Suji, Ilsan and Seoul. Bundang and Ilsan shouldn't be considered "country side". not that i don't believe you, but 500k/mo for a large officetel in central Seoul is hard to believe. i had a awesome 18 pyung+loft in Ilsan for 500k with a 3M deposit. when i moved to Seoullung, the place was nice, but it was half the size and it cost me 1M a month with a 10M deposit. yes, i could go out and get smashed during weekdays in Gangnam, but that got old pretty quick.

and regardless if your recruiter is a a-hole, i'm sure they have plenty of candidates for the schools in Seoul~ so your chances of getting a position in central Seoul are a lot harder than the schools right outside of Seoul.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Floating World wrote:
Quote:
For one, more noise, more bumping and more people. Second, prices are MUCH higher. As an example, in Daegu I'd pay $4 for a meal. Around Seoul (I'm not even in downtown gangnam or anything, you'll pay double around $8. Imagine spending twice your monthly income on stuff.


This.is.not.true.

Korean food costs the same everywhere.


I beg to differ.

And so does this guy

http://blog.korea.net/?p=1555


Quote:
A healthy service will usually cost between W2,500 and W3,000.




Quote:
Seoul prices vary, but expect to pay around W3,000 for a serving



Quote:
In some areas, you can get a single ear for W1,000.




Quote:
Prices vary and will range between W500 and W1,000 per cake




Quote:
They can be a little more expensive, ranging upwards of W2,500 to W3,000 per serving


As we see prices do vary...which makes more sense then the claim that they are a carbon copy over the entire ROK.
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broken76



Joined: 27 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The chances of landing a job in Seoul or Busan vary from candidate to candidate as well as when you apply as there are more jobs certain times of the year. You do need to realize when applying for Seoul or Busan you are increasing the amount of competition that you put yourself against as the vast majority of people limit themselves to only these areas.
As for the experience living in other areas it depends more on yourself than the area. In general you can find more Western things in Seoul than other areas just as New York has more ethnic restaurants than most other cities, but that doesn't mean that other cities have zero options for foreigners. Lately the suburbs of Seoul seem to be a better place to live than Seoul itself as you get overall better living conditions, a large number of other teachers in the area (in some cases a denser population of teachers than Seoul) and access to Seoul when you want it.
Other metropolitan cities (Daegu, Incheon, Gwangju, etc) are also good options as they are as stated metropolitan cities with populations in the millions. Even smaller cities with a population of under a million will be fairly comfortable for the average teacher and in most cases the teacher community will be closer as there is a smaller group.
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The Floating World



Joined: 01 Oct 2011
Location: Here

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Myth, I was reffering to shiktangs.
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Times30



Joined: 27 Mar 2010

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

northway wrote:
The Floating World wrote:
Quote:
For one, more noise, more bumping and more people. Second, prices are MUCH higher. As an example, in Daegu I'd pay $4 for a meal. Around Seoul (I'm not even in downtown gangnam or anything, you'll pay double around $8. Imagine spending twice your monthly income on stuff.


This.is.not.true.

Korean food costs the same everywhere.


Yeah, I definitely haven't found any savings in any of my travels outside of the Seoul area, despite the ranting and raving here as to cheaper food in the provinces (a fallacy that likely starts with recruiters and works its way on down).


I often don't VEHEMENTLY disagree but I've found huge varies in prices.

By percentages of course. Just as an example,

a 500 ml. Polcari Sweat bottle runs for about 1,800 in Daegu. In Seoul it's like 3000 won. Doesn't seem like much but if you buy one a day, you're spending 1,200 more every day.

Another example, about 1 tray of salmon costs about $4500 in some areas. In Seoul, I've found smaller proportions for 9000 won.

There are price differences but it depends on the area and what you buy. Of course, western and fast food are almost always constant between provinces. If someone is buying Lotteria there's very little difference I've noticed. But if you talk about even basic stuff like going to homeplus, I notice GIANT freaking differences.

One big thing is aftershave. I use a LOT of this stuff. I used to pay 8000 won in some areas and now I have to pay 13,000. That's roughly 50% more. Same brand and type, both from homeplus.

I know everything depends.... but generally prices do differ from Seoul areas compared to like Daegu and Busan....

Beer too.... I find myself spending almost triple on nights out while consuming the same amount.
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minos



Joined: 01 Dec 2010
Location: kOREA

PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Times30 wrote:
northway wrote:
The Floating World wrote:
Quote:
For one, more noise, more bumping and more people. Second, prices are MUCH higher. As an example, in Daegu I'd pay $4 for a meal. Around Seoul (I'm not even in downtown gangnam or anything, you'll pay double around $8. Imagine spending twice your monthly income on stuff.


This.is.not.true.

Korean food costs the same everywhere.


Yeah, I definitely haven't found any savings in any of my travels outside of the Seoul area, despite the ranting and raving here as to cheaper food in the provinces (a fallacy that likely starts with recruiters and works its way on down).


I often don't VEHEMENTLY disagree but I've found huge varies in prices.

By percentages of course. Just as an example,

a 500 ml. Polcari Sweat bottle runs for about 1,800 in Daegu. In Seoul it's like 3000 won. Doesn't seem like much but if you buy one a day, you're spending 1,200 more every day.

Another example, about 1 tray of salmon costs about $4500 in some areas. In Seoul, I've found smaller proportions for 9000 won.

There are price differences but it depends on the area and what you buy. Of course, western and fast food are almost always constant between provinces. If someone is buying Lotteria there's very little difference I've noticed. But if you talk about even basic stuff like going to homeplus, I notice GIANT freaking differences.

One big thing is aftershave. I use a LOT of this stuff. I used to pay 8000 won in some areas and now I have to pay 13,000. That's roughly 50% more. Same brand and type, both from homeplus.

I know everything depends.... but generally prices do differ from Seoul areas compared to like Daegu and Busan....

Beer too.... I find myself spending almost triple on nights out while consuming the same amount.


Your shopping at the wrong places.....$3 for a pocari sweat??

At a theme park maybe.

My guess is you bought the stuff as home plus on sale as they also have standard pricing....it's a chain.

As for fish and other vegetables; the good deals are in the street markets. In small towns they are the only market usually. Seoul has more expensive items if you desire.

Beer is rougly same price everywhere in Hoffs(not bars): $3-5 for a korean beer.

Even in Gangnam; I never paid more than $5 for a hoff korean beer.


I've noticed that many shops in Seoul Vary their prices....so one shop 5 meters away might be 20% lower on orange juice for example.

Supas obviously can set prices at whatever they feel like(and often do).
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