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Which category best describes you
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Regardless of visa, which category do you fit into in Korea?

Married, great 'alternative' social set up with Korean and foreign friends, and happiness. Good money.

14%

[ 8 ]

Married, decent set up, some money. A Korean friend or 2. Some foreign friends

12%

[ 7 ]

Married, decent set up, some money and some foreign friends.

[ 2 ]

Married. Friends? I get by.

[ 5 ]

A lifer - I'm in more or less the same position now as I was when I first came. It is what it is.

12%

[ 7 ]

Don't mind me. Just passing through.

18%

[ 10 ]

Other (feel free to describe below)

27%

[ 15 ]

Total Votes : 54

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PatrickGHBusan

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:08 am Post subject:

edwardcatflap wrote:

Quote:

Not what I said at all but sure man. Run with that.

I said

Quote:

I've never come across anyone who expressed a desire to stay here for the rest of their lives who wasn't either married to a Korean or planning to marry a Korean.

You said

Quote:

they for the most part are planning on staying in Korea for the duration of their professional working careers

Can you not see the difference? It's funny, you rushed so quickly to prove me wrong and defend Korea against any perceived crtitcism, you didn't even stop to actually consider the point I was making

Ok let me equally clear....the proposition itself is ludicrous. NO ONE will unilaterally declare they want to stay in a place UNTIL THEY DIE. Not saying that is not a judgement on the place where this person resides. You framed the debate in those terms because it suits your position on Korea. Lets not pretend you actually were ready to discuss this however.

Most people who stayed in Korea longterm know people who are unmarried and who have no plans to leave. They are happy there and stay there. They may retire there (I know a couple of older people who DID retire in Korea).

I was married and had not plans to leave but things happened that were out of my control and then conditions changed in the form of a job offer I just could not turn down so we moved. This had NOTHING to do with Korea and ALL to do with an opportinuty somewhere else and a set of circumstances.

Anyway, lets end this here shall we as it will not produce any sort of constructive discussion. Cheers.

Modernist

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:08 am Post subject:

Quote:

Would you not have this same problem with any job that involved working with people? Are you basically saying you'd be happier working with inanimate objects?

Not to derail a thread, but no. My preference is actually working with ideas and concepts, but I'm not an engineer or technician or something like that. I like people generally speaking; I like most of my students. That's not the issue. With teaching, as far as I can tell, there's nothing new most of the time. Once you hit on a successful way to teach a concept to a class, you're going to repeat it over and over. Trying something new that could be a disaster [at least a third of the time, it will be--too hard, too easy, too boring, too foreign, not effective in communicating the concept, not effective in relating to the students' experiences, etc] when you already have something that worked like a charm last time: why would you do that?

Not to mention the way teaching English is all about repeating things, all the time, constantly. It's dull. It doesn't stimulate the mind. There's no new problems to solve, just the same old problems over and over again with new faces. There's no new concepts, just the same old concepts [directions, foods, sicknesses, animals, descriptions, etc] over and over again.

Personally I don't see how anyone could not become at least a LITTLE bored by doing this year after year. However, on the Myers-Briggs I'm an INTP, so perhaps I'm just not mentally suited for teaching compared to other types. If it works for you, and Korea does, too, then you're like schwa. And as I said, I envy him. Better to know what you want and have it than to be casting about trying to get it back, like me.

edwardcatflap

Joined: 22 Mar 2009

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 4:47 am Post subject:

Quote:

Umm.. I believe Schwa said exactly that a few posts ago. Your reading comprehension is letting you down again. Loads of people talk about which country they want to retire to all the time. Loads of people say they're settled in a country and have made plans for their retirement in that same country. My students, for example, often say they're happy living in Korea and talk about their plans for moving to the countryside when they retire. that is effectively saying they'd like to stay here till they die isn't it? I'm quite settled here but I know I don't want to retire here. Like most foreigners I've discussed the subject with. Except those whose Korean wives call the shots.

Last edited by edwardcatflap on Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:50 am; edited 2 times in total

edwardcatflap

Joined: 22 Mar 2009

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 5:00 am Post subject:

Quote:

Not to mention the way teaching English is all about repeating things, all the time, constantly. It's dull. It doesn't stimulate the mind. There's no new problems to solve, just the same old problems over and over again with new faces. There's no new concepts, just the same old concepts [directions, foods, sicknesses, animals, descriptions, etc] over and over again.

I actually like doing lessons over and over again and fine tuning it each time. You could liken it to a standup comedian doing a long tour with the same material, tweaking it a little and getting slightly different reactions in each new place. Only your buzz comes from students learning and enjoying the material rather than just laughing. I kind of agree with what you say about kids though, I got out of that a while ago. Though you can't help being moved by the end of Goodbye Mr Chips who put up with 50 odd years of them and seemed to like it.

nick70100

Joined: 09 Sep 2005

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:06 am Post subject:

pegasus64128 wrote:

nate1983 wrote:

pegasus64128 wrote:

You could be loaded with money in Korea, be single and then what? You'd have to get married or go to a different country if you want to retire or set up a business.

Um, no you don't. F2 visa, D8 visa (which I have)...plenty of options available.

You have to be married (I was referring to single people) or ethnically Korean to have an F2 visa do you not?
There is the F2-S visa which I heard of one person getting (who was ethnically Korean). One poster on Dave's has the F-99 and you need to be stuck in the same job for 4 years flat out to get it.
The D8 visa requires something like 80,000 US investment into Korea does it not?

So your options (if you don't marry a Korean) are:
Be of Korean ethnicity?, give us all your money, or work like a slave for 4 years in the same job. All of these seem a little unreasonable to me. I'm not saying Korea is the only country with somewhat draconian naturalization laws. I'm sure it isn't, but I'm not a fan of any of the above approaches.

The new F2-S visa looks promising but it's untested really as of yet. It is a new visa afterall. Also, it forces you to be better than the average Korean to gain entry to their country imo. You have to be some combination of: very well qualified, lived in the country for a year (that's fine), speak some level of Korean (to offset your lack of credentials - again fine), demonstrate knowledge of Korean culture (I'm not crazy about this one, as imo many Koreans are ignorant of their own culture, or at least don't practice it), and/or carry out charity work. These are all reasonable criteria for an outstanding citizen.

I'm not trying to be too critical. I hope I don't come across that way, but getting married to a Korean sure does seem to save you a lot of headaches if you want to advance yourself in this country.

I guess I'm an "other". I'm unmarried, don't have any plans to leave, and I'm generally happy with my life here.

I don't really understand your fixation on the idea that getting married is the only way to live here long term. Dare I say that Korea is actually fairly liberal with these residency visas, at least compared to my own country (USA). $80,000 is chump change compared to what it would cost to get an investor visa in the USA. I have the F-2-7 (point visa) and it really wasn't that difficult. I personally know several others who got it, and more that are working towards it. Basically if you speak Korean, do the class, and are under the age of 45 it's yours. I applied in person, paid 60,000won, and it only took 3 weeks to process. A permanent residence application in the states would cost a lot more, often requires a lawyer because it's so complicated, takes months/years to complete, and they certainly don't accept just anyone who speaks English and took an American culture class. What would you change to make the Korean system better?

And as for the idea that the requirements for the point visa are too difficult and marriage is "easy", well I'm sure some of the married people here might disagree with your claim that getting married leads to fewer headaches. I've never been married, but in my opinion learning Korean and taking a culture class for a few months seems a lot easier than finding someone that I would be comfortable spending the rest of my life with, but that's just me.

The Cosmic Hum

Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space

Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:38 am Post subject:

edwardcatflap wrote:

I'm quite settled here but I know I don't want to retire here. Like most foreigners I've discussed the subject with. Except those whose Korean wives call the shots.

...ouch...but insightfully humorous. Wink

naturegirl321

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Home sweet home

Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:57 pm Post subject:

Lolimahro wrote:

fosterman wrote:

but so many foreigners who left their own countries like 15 years ago when they were 22, and are now going on 40, seem to always talk about how home is terrible compared to here.

It's interesting that you've had this experience because mine has been the complete opposite. I have often found that the longer people have been in Korea and put down roots (make a bunch of money, have nice middle-class stuff like 2 cars, some kids, etc.), the more they have idealized their home country and can't wait to get home. The majority of expats I know don't feel this way but usually they seem okay with where they are or really wanting to go home, not with really hyper-idealizing Korea and avoid ever going back to their home country. Funny how it goes both ways.

I see a lot of English speaking westerns, particularly women married to Korean men, saying how horrible education is back in their home country. While I agree that it's not perfect, I haven't lived in the US for a long time, so I don't know if I can compare. Similar to what fosterman said, I left at 19, now I'm 29 (at least for a couple months longer!)

However, I don't know if I'd say Korean education as "better". Sure they test well in math and science. But at what cost? studying until 10pm at school? being forced to go to hagwons becuase they can't learn enough at PS? my male students said their fathers used to beat them if they got bad grades. Then, ok, they do well on the test. How much of that info are they going to remember in a week? a month? how about the next day? They can cram, whoop-dee-doo, and memorise facts. But actually internalising the info and applying it is a whole different ballgame

I'm not saying that western schools with gangs, drugs, and the like are perfect, but neither are Korean schools. I just think that a lot of people see Koreans' grades and forget what they have to do to get them.

If people really want to look for ideal schools, they need to look up to Scandanvia.

T-J wrote:

Awesome (read hand over fist, biggest problem is counting and keeping it from uncle Sam) money.

There's a of legal couple of ways around it

2555 and 1116
Give up US citizenship, why not? I mean, you're a lifer after all.
Get a good tax accountant
Invest smartly. Do what Warren Buffett does to keep his money safe

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