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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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 Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| sml7285 wrote: |
Neither age nor intent matter in situations like this. The subject of the over-enthusiastic adoration was clearly uncomfortable with the situation. That is harassment. |
The nanny state rears its ugly head. |
Say what you want, but I've actually been in a position where I worked with 6 years olds on a regular basis (I was a swim coach for many years). I've had kids do things that were less socially unacceptable, but made others more uncomfortable as well as have kids do things that were less socially acceptable with less discomfort.
It really depends on the situation. You have to realize that first and foremost, that the victim is not the boy, but the girl. Maybe the punishment was too severe; however, he was harassing someone who wanted to be left alone. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:24 am Post subject: |
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| I too have been in a situation where I worked with six year olds on a regular basis: as their teacher, in a school. If one of my kids did that I'd tell them to cut if out. If it continued, I would further discipline them. Suspending a sic year old for sexual harassment is totally absurd. You say that age is irrelevant: if a four year old boy was bothering a girl in your class by saying the same thing, would that justify suspension? It's totally absurd. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| I too have been in a situation where I worked with six year olds on a regular basis: as their teacher, in a school. If one of my kids did that I'd tell them to cut if out. If it continued, I would further discipline them. Suspending a sic year old for sexual harassment is totally absurd. You say that age is irrelevant: if a four year old boy was bothering a girl in your class by saying the same thing, would that justify suspension? It's totally absurd. |
I think sexual harassment has connotations attached to it that makes even the words almost stigmatized in America. Harassment is defined as: "to create an unpleasant or hostile situation for especially by uninvited and unwelcome verbal or physical conduct". Sexual harassment simply implies that the hostile situation also had sexual overtones.
Was the girl in question harassed? Clearly. If she felt compelled to report the boy, then she was obviously uncomfortable. Was the harassment sexual in nature? Well to me singing the word may not necessarily be, but "'shaking his booty' near the girl's face" is. If harassment has sexual overtones, then yes - regardless of how serious it is, it can be considered sexual harassment.
Can a child who doesn't understand the implications of his actions be guilty of sexual harassment? Well, yes. Just as a child who steals a stick of gum is technically committing petty larceny, a child who makes another child uncomfortable with actions that can be construed as sexual is guilty of sexual harassment. In this case, the actions, not the intent, determine the characterization.
Now - is three days too severe? I don't know. I have no idea how many times the kid has been reprimanded nor how severe his actions were before this incident, so I can't say if it was severe or not given his previous actions. What I can say is that sometimes it takes this sort of disciplinary action to get some children in line. |
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NilesQ
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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This is an exapmle of the falicy of sexual equality. If a little girl kisses a little boy or makes some kind of "sexual" gesture towards him, everyone fawns over it and says how cute it is. Even if the boy feels uncomfortable or doesnt like it, he is basically told to deal with it. As people who work with kids, we've all seen situations like this. If intent doesn't matter, then that girl is equally as guilty of sexual harrassment as the boy in the story.
I know it is all subjective. Some actions are inherently creepy and harrassy (if that's a word). But you have to apply the rule equally, or it ceases to be a rule and just a way to persecute jerks that nobody likes. You know how it is, there are some little guys that are the cutest thing on earth when the get up and sing "I'm sexy and I know it". Then, there are the little jerks that make you cringe every time they open their mouths. Like it or not, life is a popularity contest. Some people get away with stuff that others can't. The benchmark for sexual harrassment shouldn't be whether or not the harassee likes the harassor.
If you want to suspend the boy, make it for disobedience not sexual harrassment. He's 6. People are not yet sexual beings at that age. By doing this to him you are sexualizing a child, which in any other context is completely unacceptable. |
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sml7285
Joined: 26 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| NilesQ wrote: |
| If you want to suspend the boy, make it for disobedience not sexual harrassment. He's 6. People are not yet sexual beings at that age. By doing this to him you are sexualizing a child, which in any other context is completely unacceptable. |
A rose by any other name...
Plus there's a difference in my opinion between "sexual" conduct that is acceptable (?) like the examples you gave and a kid shaking his butt in a girl's face while singing "I'm sexy and I know it".
As for the sexual inequality bit... I've spoken with 6 year olds of both genders as well as their parents for misconduct of an unintentionally "sexual" nature. Some brought up the same points that others on this thread have, but when I pointed out how uncomfortable the kid on the receiving end was, they understood.
I understand that kids have crushes growing up from a young age; it's cute. When one child is comfortable talking and chatting with another child until the "sexual" stuff comes up though, that in my mind is sexual harassment. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| So if age has no bearing on it... Can a 3 year old be charged with sexual harassment? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Captain Corea wrote: |
| So if age has no bearing on it... Can a 3 year old be charged with sexual harassment? |
I'm guessing sml has yet to be dongchimmed. |
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soomin
Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| KimchiNinja wrote: |
| midnightpariah wrote: |
| but unfortunately these are the times we live in |
They aren't the times we live in in Korea. They are the times unfortunately people in the USA live in... |
Really? I had a pair of middle school girls constantly flip up my skirt in class and say "I'm a lez~ I'm lesbian!" and when confronted by their Korean teacher, told them "It's our hobby!" I also had an elementary-aged boy look at me and make boob gestures at me (both of these students got punished).
My middle schoolers consistently talk about pornography in class, and I've had students tell me stories about pornographic material they viewed. One student told me "We're talking about "병신." It's a boy whose *beep* doesn't work" and then go back to chatting about how much porn some girls in the class were watching and about penises... Yesterday one of my middle schoolers told me he had used his science academy teacher's laptop and found porn in one of his files. When he reported it to the principal, the principal patted the teacher on the back and said "Haha~ I like it, too!"
Don't tell me that Korea doesn't have these kinds of problems...
As for the OP... It seems like they were trying to make the kid an example. Suspension for disorderly conduct would have been more appropriate, but if you let one kid slide because of age, what happens when the 7 year-old does it? 8? 9? How can the school set an age limit on sexual misconduct without setting off a firestorm? If they spread it out evenly and make sure no one gets let off because they are too young, then future punishments won't have to go through the hassle of determining age restrictions later on. |
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Maserial
Joined: 31 Jul 2005
Location: The Web
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| Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| soomin wrote: |
| Yesterday one of my middle schoolers told me he had used his science academy teacher's laptop and found porn in one of his files. When he reported it to the principal, the principal patted the teacher on the back and said "Haha~ I like it, too!" |
I probably shouldn't have laughed at what you wrote, but... |
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