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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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 Posted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
| This would be worth pursuing if his mother weren't American. But since she was, Obama is a natural-born citizen regardless of where his mother was at the time. |
First off, the birthers, of course, are out-and-out loons. But their big thing is based on the fact that passing citizenship to one's child born abroad isn't just "born of an American overseas." There are residency requirements in the US for certain time after a certain age. This does not mean, in any way, that those loons are correct about Obama's place of birth. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| This would be worth pursuing if his mother weren't American. But since she was, Obama is a natural-born citizen regardless of where his mother was at the time. |
First off, the birthers, of course, are out-and-out loons. But their big thing is based on the fact that passing citizenship to one's child born abroad isn't just "born of an American overseas." There are residency requirements in the US for certain time after a certain age. This does not mean, in any way, that those loons are correct about Obama's place of birth. |
The head scratching thing for me is why Clinton and just about anyone bring it up when he decided to run? It was a no name Clinton supporter from Pennsylvania that made it a legal issue.
Why didnt and why hasn't anyone of significance. Congress, Supreme Court, etc.? Logically, it makes no sense whatsoever.
That said, if he wasn't, I'm laughing my ass off. He deserves to be President if he can pull something so obvious off if the birthers are to be believed.
Just for sh*ts and giggles, I'd love to see what would happen if it was challengd by the Supreme Court. Wow, the mess. What would be the constitutional, legal and political ramifications? All his laws null and void? Who becomes President? McCain? Biden? A new election? The courts would have so many lawsuits. Give me my popcorn and I'd sit back and enjoy watching the whole glorious mess. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| sirius black wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
| This would be worth pursuing if his mother weren't American. But since she was, Obama is a natural-born citizen regardless of where his mother was at the time. |
First off, the birthers, of course, are out-and-out loons. But their big thing is based on the fact that passing citizenship to one's child born abroad isn't just "born of an American overseas." There are residency requirements in the US for certain time after a certain age. This does not mean, in any way, that those loons are correct about Obama's place of birth. |
The head scratching thing for me is why Clinton and just about anyone bring it up when he decided to run? It was a no name Clinton supporter from Pennsylvania that made it a legal issue.
Why didnt and why hasn't anyone of significance. Congress, Supreme Court, etc.? Logically, it makes no sense whatsoever.
That said, if he wasn't, I'm laughing my ass off. He deserves to be President if he can pull something so obvious off if the birthers are to be believed.
Just for sh*ts and giggles, I'd love to see what would happen if it was challengd by the Supreme Court. Wow, the mess. What would be the constitutional, legal and political ramifications? All his laws null and void? Who becomes President? McCain? Biden? A new election? The courts would have so many lawsuits. Give me my popcorn and I'd sit back and enjoy watching the whole glorious mess. |
There's a lawyer in my firm, possibly sharper than me but definitely more experienced, who believes in the merits of the birthers, but declines to participate on practical grounds. He claims that the certification of live birth does not qualify as a true birth certificate. There are two problems with his contention:
(1) The Constitution does not specify the manner of proof required for qualification to office. But eligibility to become a candidate is dictated by the States individually, in the absence of a controlling Federal body. Interestingly enough, a Congressional bill was proposed to determine whether a candidate was qualified to run for office in 2008, but it was not Barack Obama. The Senate unanimously concluded that John Sidney McCain III was a U.S. born citizen.
(2) Hawaii does not issue a birth certificate, but only certifications of live birth. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/05/hawaii-trolling-arizonas-presidential-birth-certificate-seeking-secretary-state/52657/
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Hawaii is apparently so sick of people asking for proof of President Obama's birth, that they've turned the tables on Arizona's secretary of state, demanding that he's the one�who has to prove he deserves to see it.
Ken Bennett (pictured) has made headlines in the last few days for suggesting that Obama may not be on the ballot in Arizona this November without some solid proof that the President was actually born in Hawaii. Bennett, who says he's just trying�satisfy�questions raised by his state's citizens, has made several phone calls and written inquiries to Hawaii's health department asking for "verification," but has yet to get his answer, mostly because state officials are giving him the run around. Which is a nice way of saying he's being clowned. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| There's a simple answer to this. Verify the last time someone saw Obama's mother in US territory. Then check the time it would take to Kenya, and then see when someone witnessed or had record of her after that. I'm pretty sure that a flight to Kenya in 1961 would take something like 4 days. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| There's a simple answer to this. Verify the last time someone saw Obama's mother in US territory. Then check the time it would take to Kenya, and then see when someone witnessed or had record of her after that. I'm pretty sure that a flight to Kenya in 1961 would take something like 4 days. |
gee that's so clever, and then maybe she schemed ahead of time to make sure the Hawaiian newspapers would still publish the birth announcement - as a birth in Hawaii, huh?  |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2012 11:05 pm Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| There's a simple answer to this. Verify the last time someone saw Obama's mother in US territory. Then check the time it would take to Kenya, and then see when someone witnessed or had record of her after that. I'm pretty sure that a flight to Kenya in 1961 would take something like 4 days. |
gee that's so clever, and then maybe she schemed ahead of time to make sure the Hawaiian newspapers would still publish the birth announcement - as a birth in Hawaii, huh? |
Of course this is all predicated on the idea that a woman who is near birth would suddenly get it in her head to hop on a grueling 4 day flight into a country with suspect medical care and various diseases and probably had things like C-47s as their airliners. Sounds plausible to me.  |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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ok I thought you were serious - hard to tell sometimes in this forum  |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| The Constitution does not specify the manner of proof required for qualification to office. But eligibility to become a candidate is dictated by the States individually, in the absence of a controlling Federal body. |
Hawaii has stated he was born there. So, issue resolved. Next! |
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Zackback
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Saying and proving are not necessarily the same. |
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sirius black
Joined: 04 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:29 am Post subject: |
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Why should Hawaii have to prove anything? Just like any other state has to prove someone they said was born there was born there.
The whole birther thing, for it to be true Obama was born in Kenya would require the compliance of the state of Hawaii. That's a little far fetched for me. Why would Hawaii go along with such a ruse? Just so it can have a favorite son elected President? lol.
I'm no fan of Obama but the birther thing just doesn't meet the reason/logic test for me. There are so many times in Obama's childhood where citizenship would have been relevant. Obama's mother and family in on the ruse, Obama told about it and keeping it secret and then deciding to run for President knowing this background would be scrutinized.
I'm waiting for a birther to give me some logical reason why the state of Hawaii as well as Obama's politica rivals have not challenged this. As I stated, no one person or body of note is challenging it. Why? Give me something birthers that makes some sense.
Just doesn't make any sense to me. Sorry. But part of me does wish he was born in Kenya though because it would be hysterically funny the consequences. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Zackback wrote: |
| Saying and proving are not necessarily the same. |
What do you want, a birth video with the Hawaiian flag in the background? You have the certificate of live birth (Hawaii's equivalent of a birth certificate), what else can they do to prove it? I generally assume that your posts are non-serious, so this isn't really directed at you, but generally speaking, if you still think Obama was born at the foot of an imam in some Kenyan madrassa, that's not going to change. |
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Zackback
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone can get what he got from Hawaii. That is not the real deal.
From the admin. that said they will be transparent where are his university records?
From the OP: This report explains the context of the oft cited debate, between Obama and Keyes in the following Fall, in which Keyes faulted Obama for not being a �natural born citizen�, and in which Obama, by his quick retort, �So what? I am running for Illinois Senator, not the presidency�...
Why would Obama retort in such a way? |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Zackback wrote: |
Anyone can get what he got from Hawaii. That is not the real deal.
From the admin. that said they will be transparent where are his university records?
From the OP: This report explains the context of the oft cited debate, between Obama and Keyes in the following Fall, in which Keyes faulted Obama for not being a �natural born citizen�, and in which Obama, by his quick retort, �So what? I am running for Illinois Senator, not the presidency�...
Why would Obama retort in such a way? |
Yet somehow there's no video of this supposed exchange, despite it happening in a highly publicized senate race with a major media market. |
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Zackback
Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Location: Kyungbuk
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| Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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And yet somehow no one can supply his application form to Harvard which states where he was born.
"The most transparent administration in human history"?
Where are his grades and papers from his time there? .....Hiding |
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