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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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 Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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I bought a long coat from Banana Republic, and within a week one of the cuffs started to fray. I had worn it, and still got an even exchange. There must have been a thread that was loose, because the second coat lasted for years. Stores have policies, but the managers are allowed a bit of leeway in interpreting them, which sometimes works out.
Thanks for the heads up, OP! |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| Stores have policies, but the managers are allowed a bit of leeway in interpreting them, which sometimes works out. |
Yes, that's fine and dandy. I'm sure many people have antedoctal stories such as this. However, I never claimed that no one has ever returned worn/washed clothing. All I said was that "NORMAL" policy was to disallow it, so I don't understand why some feel the need to chime in with their stories.
I also stated "MOST" stores have such a policy, but that sort of distinction is beyond atwood's capabilities I'm afraid. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Just because they have a policy, doesn't mean they always enforce it strictly. If you've got a receipt that shows you just purchased something and probably wore it only once and it was defective, they're going to at least exchange it. I've seen it done at Brooks Bros., I've seem it done at Bloomingdales and I've seen it done at Walmart. I hope that's "mainstream" enough for you. |
Yes, yes, I learned last time that you like to make up facts as you go along and that you can't admit you made a mistake. Just because you claim you've done it, doesn't mean the employee was following company policy. Walmart explictly states "Merchandise must be returned unworn."
http://www.walmart.com/cp/Returns-Policy/538459
As does near every mainstream store that sells clothes. I simply can't dumb that statement down any more for you, but I'm sure you've got another way to misinterpret it. |
What's to misinterpret? Oh, you were wrong and now you want to claim you were speaking only to store policy, which is, often not followed.
And so you've proven only that you can google Walmart and copy and paste their posted policy. And you've proven you can call direct experience false.
But since you believe only what's been posted on the Internet, even though in the previous case you mentioned you read only a small part of the website and then grossly overstated what it said, I'll humor you--and FYI, I'm chanting USA! USA ! while I post this:
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The too-gross-for-words news? A whole new group of retailers -- including Walmart and Marshalls -- was caught returning questionable intimates to the sales floor.
The "Today" show's Jeff Rossen first reported on this dirty little retail secret in March, when secret shoppers were sent to J.Crew, Saks Fifth Avenue, Gap, Victoria's Secret, Nordstrom, Bloomingdale's, and Macy's.
The news team removed price tags and hygienic strips from panties, stained them with baby oil, and marked tags with two black dots for identification purposes. All of the stores accepted the soiled returns, and the show's investigators found the merchandise back on the shelves at Gap, Victoria's Secret, Macy's, Nordstrom, and Bloomingdale's. A Victoria's Secret whistle-blower told Rossen it was common practice to put returned panties back on sale. Fortunately, the stained undergarments were not found at J.Crew or Saks.
A microbiologist who has worked with "Today" explained that soiled undergarments can harbor bacteria and viruses for several weeks, with the most imminent danger coming from "fecal material."
The offending retailers all put out strong statements condemning what "Today" found and vowed to reeducate their sales teams, adding that what happened was not store practice. Some noted that they have generous return policies, and while customers may have legitimate reasons for returning worn garments, they should never have been put out for sale. |
http://main.stylelist.com/2010/05/17/today-show-dirty-underwear-secret-filth-exposed.
It happens, posted policy or not. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| What's to misinterpret? Oh, you were wrong and now you want to claim you were speaking only to store policy, which is, often not followed. |
So how was I wrong again? Wrong like how you failed to read Gap's return policy that was in the post you quoted.
| atwood wrote: |
| And so you've proven only that you can google Walmart and copy and paste their posted policy. And you've proven you can call direct experience false. |
Yes, because you've proven that your possibly made-up antedoctal evidence trumps pretty much everything right? Sometimes I wonder if late at night, when you're all alone you ever reflect on why you're unemployable in your home country.
| atwood wrote: |
| It happens, posted policy or not. |
Care to show me where I claimed otherwise? Care to make any other straw man arguments tonight? |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| The OP didn't want a refund, she wanted an even exchange. I recommend not criticizing the reading comprehension skills of others. |
It's the Old Navy/Gap/BR return AND exchange policy if you want me to get technical. I would have thought that as an employee, you would have known better. |
You're wrong. From your link:
You can return or exchange any item that's in its original condition (unwashed and unworn) or defective, unless it was purchased for final sale, with the exception of Athleta styles which can be returned or exchanged at any time with no questions asked.
Should I explain the grammatical importance of "or" in that statement?
As I already noted it is GAP Inc.'s stated policy that it will take defective merchandise for an even exchange. There are actual company measures that are to be taken specifically for items that have been washed and/or had their tags removed. I never violate a company I work for (I wasn't a BR salesperson either btw), but thank you for trying. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Mon May 28, 2012 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| Stores have policies, but the managers are allowed a bit of leeway in interpreting them, which sometimes works out. |
Yes, that's fine and dandy. I'm sure many people have antedoctal stories such as this. However, I never claimed that no one has ever returned worn/washed clothing. All I said was that "NORMAL" policy was to disallow it, so I don't understand why some feel the need to chime in with their stories.
I also stated "MOST" stores have such a policy, but that sort of distinction is beyond atwood's capabilities I'm afraid. |
Of course, but I doubt that this stall has a written policy anywhere. Anyway, with cheap shops, buyer beware. I'd never expect to return or exchange anything at one of those shops. It's a gamble. I'd recommend bringing it to a tailor. They are really cheap here. It'd probably cost about 2 or 3k to get it fixed/cleaned. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
You're wrong. From your link:
You can return or exchange any item that's in its original condition (unwashed and unworn) or defective, unless it was purchased for final sale, with the exception of Athleta styles which can be returned or exchanged at any time with no questions asked.
Should I explain the grammatical importance of "or" in that statement. |
Nope, looks like you need to educate yourself as to what is considered defective clothing, which would include sewing defects, sizing defects, color defects, and broken buttons, zippers, snaps, etc. The only defect she can claim is the small hole assuming it was preexisting, but once she washed it, it becomes her responsibility.
| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| As I already noted it is GAP Inc.'s stated policy that it will take defective merchandise for an even exchange. There are actual company measures that are to be taken specifically for items that have been washed and/or had their tags removed. I never violate a company I work for (I wasn't a BR salesperson either btw), but thank you for trying. |
Maybe the rationale behind the clothing return policy was beyond your pay grade, but the reason why you can't return washed clothes and claim that they are defective is that the washing process could have resulted in the damage to the clothes. Once you wash it, retailers aren't generally, I repeat for the hard-headed, GENERALLY, responsible for any problems that could have resulted from the wearing/washing. In the OP's case, fraying and a small hole could have been caused by roughly washing the clothes.
| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| There are actual company measures that are to be taken specifically for items that have been washed and/or had their tags removed. |
Yes, and I quoted what they are. You're welcome.  |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
Nope, looks like you need to educate yourself as to what is considered defective clothing, which would include sewing defects, sizing defects, color defects, and broken buttons, zippers, snaps, etc. The only defect she can claim is the small hole assuming it was preexisting, but once she washed it, it becomes her responsibility. |
What color are the straws you're grasping at?
You want to limit what is and is not a "defect", though GAP Inc. doesn't quantify or qualify the term. So you are unnecessarily and erroneously modifying the term.
| madoka wrote: |
Maybe the rationale behind the clothing return policy was beyond your pay grade, but the reason why you can't return washed clothes and claim that they are defective is that the washing process could have resulted in the damage to the clothes. Once you wash it, retailers aren't generally, I repeat for the hard-headed, GENERALLY, responsible for any problems that could have resulted from the wearing/washing. In the OP's case, fraying and a small hole could have been caused by roughly washing the clothes. |
Nice attempt at trolling.
Wait, now we are speaking generally? I am only addressing the specifics of the company you erroneously mentioned. So we are moving the goalposts further? What argumentative fallacy is next?
I understand why some companies may wish to state as policy that once a garment is washed, it is no longer eligible for return and/or exchange. However, that is not the official policy of GAP Inc.
| madoka wrote: |
| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
| There are actual company measures that are to be taken specifically for items that have been washed and/or had their tags removed. |
Yes, and I quoted what they are. You're welcome. |
No, and your attempt at cuteness just makes you look more ignorant. |
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madoka
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| Patrick Bateman wrote: |
What color are the straws you're grasping at?
You want to limit what is and is not a "defect", though GAP Inc. doesn't quantify or qualify the term. So you are unnecessarily and erroneously modifying the term. |
Well so far, all you've managed to do is mention that you worked one summer mopping the floor at the local Banana Republic. On the other hand, I've posted their actual policy and not the super secret employee only policy that apparently only exists in your mind. I've posted apparel industry definitions for defects which you seem to disagree without explanation; check here if you don't believe me:
http://www.fibre2fashion.com/industry-article/9/837/defects-in-garments1.asp
You haven't been able to back up anything you've presented with more than hearsay and you think I'm the one grasping at straws? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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YOU wrote:
| madoka wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| What's to misinterpret? Oh, you were wrong and now you want to claim you were speaking only to store policy, which is, often not followed. |
So how was I wrong again? Wrong like how you failed to read Gap's return policy that was in the post you quoted.
| atwood wrote: |
| And so you've proven only that you can google Walmart and copy and paste their posted policy. And you've proven you can call direct experience false. |
Yes, because you've proven that your possibly made-up antedoctal evidence trumps pretty much everything right? Sometimes I wonder if late at night, when you're all alone you ever reflect on why you're unemployable in your home country.
| atwood wrote: |
| It happens, posted policy or not. |
Care to show me where I claimed otherwise? Care to make any other straw man arguments tonight? |
YOU wrote:
| Quote: |
| In my experience, only the high-end shops are willing to take the financial hit of refunding items in the name of customer service. |
You brought up experience. Now you wish to ignore than part of your post and hide behind your mention of store policy, which is, as has been shown, far from uniformly enforced.
And now you have to try and call me a liar--"possibly made-up anecdotal evidence"--even though I posted an investigative news story proving my experience (although my experience wasn't with underwear).
Just admit you're wrong. You'll be a better woman for it. |
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Patrick Bateman
Joined: 21 Apr 2009
Location: Lost in Translation
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| madoka wrote: |
Well so far, all you've managed to do is mention that you worked one summer mopping the floor at the local Banana Republic. On the other hand, I've posted their actual policy and not the super secret employee only policy that apparently only exists in your mind. I've posted apparel industry definitions for defects which you seem to disagree without explanation; check here if you don't believe me:
http://www.fibre2fashion.com/industry-article/9/837/defects-in-garments1.asp
You haven't been able to back up anything you've presented with more than hearsay and you think I'm the one grasping at straws? |
GAP Inc.'s official returns and exchanges policy:
You can return or exchange any item that's in its original condition (unwashed and unworn) or defective, unless it was purchased for final sale, with the exception of Athleta styles which can be returned or exchanged at any time with no questions asked.
http://bananarepublic.gap.com/customerService/info.do?cid=1324&mlink=5001,4556350,12&clink=4556350
Your "apparel industry definitions for defects" link states:
Various defects in garments:
v Broken buttons
v Broken snaps
v Broken stitching
v Defective snaps
v Different shades within the same garment
v Dropped stitches
v Exposed notches
v Exposed raw edges
v Fabric defects
v Holes
v Inoperative zipper
v Loose / hanging sewing threads
v Misaligned buttons and holes
v Missing buttons
v Needle cuts / chews
v Open seams
v Pulled / loose yarn
v Stain
v Unfinished buttonhole
v Zipper too short
http://www.fibre2fashion.com/industry-article/9/837/defects-in-garments1.asp
Last edited by Patrick Bateman on Tue May 29, 2012 4:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Swampfox10mm
Joined: 24 Mar 2011
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:29 pm Post subject: |
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Madoka, are you trolling again?
Just ignore Madoka. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| NYCGal2.0 wrote: |
| with cheap shops, buyer beware. |
Its not just the cheap markets. Most clothes I've bought in korea have not lasted long, be they from namdaemun or the department stores.
The shoes lose their stitching after about 6 months, the pants are falling apart or frayed within the same time frame.
Needless to say..there is no long history of centuries-old traditions of excellence here like you will find with products in Europe. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| NYCGal2.0 wrote: |
| with cheap shops, buyer beware. |
Its not just the cheap markets. Most clothes I've bought in korea have not lasted long, be they from namdaemun or the department stores.
The shoes lose their stitching after about 6 months, the pants are falling apart or frayed within the same time frame.
Needless to say..there is no long history of centuries-old traditions of excellence here like you will find with products in Europe. |
Like many things--it all depends. First, a lot of the stuff sold in department stores today isn't manufactured in Korea--China, Vietnam, Indian, etc. Second, if you buy something manufactured by LG Fashions or Samsung textiles or even SK, it's going to be of pretty good quality.
Look into a Landsmere shop next time you get a chance. Those are three-thousand dollar suits, and they're made under license by Samsung. Quality is top-notch. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 12:23 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| NYCGal2.0 wrote: |
| with cheap shops, buyer beware. |
Its not just the cheap markets. Most clothes I've bought in korea have not lasted long, be they from namdaemun or the department stores.
The shoes lose their stitching after about 6 months, the pants are falling apart or frayed within the same time frame.
Needless to say..there is no long history of centuries-old traditions of excellence here like you will find with products in Europe. |
I agree, but I tend to buy imported stuff when I do shop at department stores. I'd never buy Korean-made unless I only planned to wear it a handful of times. I've had a few things last, though. I got some blouse/dress things for about 15k each my first year here, and, with the exception of replacing the buttons (the paint chipped,) they're in great shape. Still, if they'd been destroyed after a month or two, at 15k each, I'd have gotten my money's worth. |
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