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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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 Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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lol
He loses a free election and that's the end of democracy.
On the topic of democracy though, I'm glad that Greece is showing us today the danger of an over-spending welfare state, just as they demonstrated the basic principles of democracy long ago...
On the other hand, it certainly is the end of any shreds of unbiased reporting from MSNBC or Fox News. Lets hope the BBC or Al-Jazeera step up to fill the void that CNN's crash is leaving. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
lol
He loses a free election and that's the end of democracy.
On the topic of democracy though, I'm glad that Greece is showing us today the danger of an over-spending welfare state, just as they demonstrated the basic principles of democracy long ago...
On the other hand, it certainly is the end of any shreds of unbiased reporting from MSNBC or Fox News. Lets hope the BBC or Al-Jazeera step up to fill the void that CNN's crash is leaving. |
I wonder if a proper BBC News channel would fly in the States. I'm not holding my breath on Al Jazeera; I'm a huge fan, but I think a lot of people automatically distrust them. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
| Citzens United States of America |
Well, Walker would have been allowed to raise as much money for this election as he wanted even without Citizens United, but Citizens United is probably partially responsible for the framework from which he did end up drawing those vast sums.
I spoke with my mother before this election, and Walker's campaign commercials were pretty clearly embedded in her psyche. More or less everything she had to say sounded like it came word-for-word from a Walker propaganda ad. She herself would have voted for Walker anyway; she's one of those people I mentioned recently in another thread, who votes Republican because she's got it in her head that she's a Republican and for no other reason. There are many independents, though, who were no doubt swayed by what they saw on the telly.
It's worth noting that over the course of these recalls, Democrats seem to have taken back the Wisconsin Senate. Of course, since the Republicans just drew up new, heavily-gerrymandered maps for the November elections, it's entirely possible that the Republicans will win back the Senate in November, but that has more to do with system-manipulating political corruption than the will of the people.
In any case, with regards to Walker, the people of Wisconsin made their choice. I hope it works out for them, I really do: I may not agree with Walker or his policies, but I disagree with them only because I simply don't think they'll succeed, so if the state is going to embrace them then I hope for their sake it works out. I doubt it will, though. If and when I go back to America, I doubt I'll be returning to my home state. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
On the topic of democracy though, I'm glad that Greece is showing us today the danger of an over-spending welfare state, just as they demonstrated the basic principles of democracy long ago...
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Yet, many other European welfare states are in better shape that the US.
Greece, Italy and Spain have a lot to do with corruption and tax evasion. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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| catman wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
On the topic of democracy though, I'm glad that Greece is showing us today the danger of an over-spending welfare state, just as they demonstrated the basic principles of democracy long ago...
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Yet, many other European welfare states are in better shape that the US.
Greece, Italy and Spain have a lot to do with corruption and tax evasion. |
I lean pretty far to the left politically, but this is a fallacy. Yes, corruption did play a role, but in Greece's case specifically, ridiculous labor and entitlement policies have played a huge role. I remember reading in Michael Lewis' Boomerang that the average public sector worker in Greece was making more than the average banker in Germany; unless you're the most ardent ideologue, that makes no sense. Greece has had some of the best teacher to student ratios in the EU, while some of the lowest educational attainment. They allowed a retirement age of 55 (I believe) for workers in certain fields, including full salary (IIRC). The premise for early retirement was that certain jobs were dangerous, including hairdressing and baking. Yeah, there are countries with great social programs that do well, but to pretend as if Greece's policy choices weren't the issue is ridiculous. At the end of the day, Greece's government dug this hole of its own accord. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
lol
He loses a free election and that's the end of democracy.
On the topic of democracy though, I'm glad that Greece is showing us today the danger of an over-spending welfare state, just as they demonstrated the basic principles of democracy long ago...
On the other hand, it certainly is the end of any shreds of unbiased reporting from MSNBC or Fox News. Lets hope the BBC or Al-Jazeera step up to fill the void that CNN's crash is leaving. |
it's hardly a free election when millions and millions are spent just to run a candidate - and the winner outspent the loser by an obscene amount:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/04/us/politics/money-spent-on-wisconsin-recall-election.html |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
| comm wrote: |
lol
He loses a free election and that's the end of democracy.
On the topic of democracy though, I'm glad that Greece is showing us today the danger of an over-spending welfare state, just as they demonstrated the basic principles of democracy long ago...
On the other hand, it certainly is the end of any shreds of unbiased reporting from MSNBC or Fox News. Lets hope the BBC or Al-Jazeera step up to fill the void that CNN's crash is leaving. |
it's hardly a free election when millions and millions are spent just to run a candidate - and the winner outspent the loser by an obscene amount:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/06/04/us/politics/money-spent-on-wisconsin-recall-election.html |
Actually, yeah it is. So what if the winner outspent the loser: what does that have to do with people freely choosing who to vote for? Most people are ignorant and selfish and just vote for whoever promises them the most "free" goodies. But that's democracy. Anyway, I didn't hear all the leftists whining when Obama outspent McCain (with money donated by all the big Wall Street banks, no less). |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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