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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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 Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Finally saw the full fight...I think it comes down to how one scores a fight.
If a steady diet of pitty pats with the occasional heavier shot is enough to rack up a victory, then I suppose it's plausible that one could give Bradley more than just the last 2 or 3 rounds (which he did make a strong case for)...Bradley's footwork was good, but although his physique is superb, his hands are just so slow and predictable and without plausible KO power.
If you're looking at who is obviously in charge of most of the fight, who lands the far heavier punches, statistically lands far more punches, and who is just stronger in skill and aura, there's no question that Pac won.
The problem is that Pac didn't finish strong (perhaps a sign of age) and therefore allowed a sliver of doubt to emerge regarding the question of utter domination of Bradley.
Give credit to Bradley for hanging in there, and then avoiding Pac's attack in the last 3 rounds while landing a few punches...but to dethrone someone like Pac, in my view you've got to do a heck of a lot more, this ain't no amateur 'I scored another point cos I touched his face', this requires you to rock the champ with some thunderous blows, get'im in serious trouble, and move the earth a bit. In short, I feel like to truly win, Bradley had to take the crown from Pac in a way which woud leave no doubt that he is the stronger and more worthy opponent for Mayweather, and he definitely did not do that.
Having said that, Pac's inability to finish off Bradley makes me feel he wouldn't fare so well against Mayweather. Bring on Alvarez or Rios, I say (tho I don't recall if their weight makes that possible).
Last edited by Dave Chance on Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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2i2dk1ny2i3
Joined: 26 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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That fight was so one sided even the "winner" declared he wasn't fighting at a 100% or something along those lines
They announced yesterday they will be doing an investigation into the fight
the fix was in |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Some of the Mothers Said wrote: |
fermentation Did you watch the fight again? What did you think this time?
Oh, for those of you who remember him, give a moment up for Cuba's Teofilo Stevenson, the legend amateur boxer who died from a heart attack on Monday aged 60.
He dominated amateur boxing for fourteen years, and became the first fighter to win the Olympic gold medal in the same division three times. (Super Heavy weight)
He had 302 victories in 321 bouts.
He was asked to give up his amateur status to fight Ali, but said "What is one million dollars compared with the love of eight million Cubans?" |
Fort the fallen. It's such a damn shame Cuba didn't and doesn't legalize pro boxing.
As for the fight, I scored it for Tim on my second viewing with the Associations of Boxing Comissions rule book in hand (technically on my firefox window). Round by round, I feel he won more fights. I just didn't see enough activity from Pacquiao and I think people overstate how much of an affect his punches had on Bradley. Like I said before, it could've gone either way and I wouldn't have been displeased if it went to Pac. It was that close and I think if people saw the fight again, this outrage might die down. One of the judges also went on record explaining his position. If it was any other fighter, people would say, "well, I disgree with that decision" and move on, but because it's Pacquiao, people act like the sky is falling. It is definitely not a robbery or a "fix" in my opinion.
| Dave Chance wrote: |
Finally saw the full fight...I think it comes down to how one scores a fight.
If you're looking at who is obviously in charge of most of the fight, who lands the far heavier punches, statistically lands far more punches, and who is just stronger in skill and aura, there's no question that Pac won. |
I actually didn't think Pac controlled the fight at all, except for a few rounds where he was landing those lead left hands. Even then Bradley was more active by consistently throwing more punches. I mostly saw Manny stepping forward while Tim was jabbing at his guard. Some of those jabbed sneaked in. Manny's workrate was simply too low for the majority of the rounds and he would try to win it by throwing a flurry at the end. While he did catch Tim with some of these (especially the 4th round where Tim rolled his ankle), a lot of the punches didn't land cleanly because Tim's movement. Tim was never visibly in trouble nor staggered. Tim also threw back after rolling and landed some clean right hands.
I was really impressed by Bradley's gradual adjustment later in the fight where he was timing Pac and countering Pac's jab with clean left hooks and Pac's straight with right hands. Defense wise, Pac was landing those lead lefts and later a left straight to the body-right hook upstairs combo, but Tim adjusted and Pac stopped landing them later. Defensively (another facet of scoring) I thought Bradley was more impressive. Tim definitely stole the last 3 rounds no doubt. And he did all with a fractured left foot and a sprained right ankle. Props to a warrior.
It did worry me a bit that maybe it wasn't Tim adjusting but rather, Pac slowing down. I hope that's not the case, but we'll see in the rematch.
| Quote: |
| Having said that, Pac's inability to finish off Bradley makes me feel he wouldn't fare so well against Mayweather. Bring on Alvarez or Rios, I say (tho I don't recall if their weight makes that possible). |
Both guys are in different weight classes (Rios too small and Canelo too big) but I'm sure they wouldn't mind meeting Pacquiao's weight to get a big payday. It won't matter though because Arum is keeping all the big fights within Top Rank. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Some of the Mothers Said wrote: |
fermentation Did you watch the fight again? What did you think this time?
Oh, for those of you who remember him, give a moment up for Cuba's Teofilo Stevenson, the legend amateur boxer who died from a heart attack on Monday aged 60.
He dominated amateur boxing for fourteen years, and became the first fighter to win the Olympic gold medal in the same division three times. (Super Heavy weight)
He had 302 victories in 321 bouts.
He was asked to give up his amateur status to fight Ali, but said "What is one million dollars compared with the love of eight million Cubans?" |
Fort the fallen. It's such a damn shame Cuba didn't and doesn't legalize pro boxing.
As for the fight, I scored it for Tim on my second viewing with the Associations of Boxing Comissions rule book in hand (technically on my firefox window). Round by round, I feel he won more fights. I just didn't see enough activity from Pacquiao and I think people overstate how much of an affect his punches had on Bradley. Like I said before, it could've gone either way and I wouldn't have been displeased if it went to Pac. It was that close and I think if people saw the fight again, this outrage might die down. One of the judges also went on record explaining his position. If it was any other fighter, people would say, "well, I disgree with that decision" and move on, but because it's Pacquiao, people act like the sky is falling. It is definitely not a robbery or a "fix" in my opinion.
| Dave Chance wrote: |
Finally saw the full fight...I think it comes down to how one scores a fight.
If you're looking at who is obviously in charge of most of the fight, who lands the far heavier punches, statistically lands far more punches, and who is just stronger in skill and aura, there's no question that Pac won. |
I actually didn't think Pac controlled the fight at all, except for a few rounds where he was landing those lead left hands. Even then Bradley was more active by consistently throwing more punches. I mostly saw Manny stepping forward while Tim was jabbing at his guard. Some of those jabbed sneaked in. Manny's workrate was simply too low for the majority of the rounds and he would try to win it by throwing a flurry at the end. While he did catch Tim with some of these (especially the 4th round where Tim rolled his ankle), a lot of the punches didn't land cleanly because Tim's movement. Tim was never visibly in trouble nor staggered. Tim also threw back after rolling and landed some clean right hands.
I was really impressed by Bradley's gradual adjustment later in the fight where he was timing Pac and countering Pac's jab with clean left hooks and Pac's straight with right hands. Defense wise, Pac was landing those lead lefts and later a left straight to the body-right hook upstairs combo, but Tim adjusted and Pac stopped landing them later. Defensively (another facet of scoring) I thought Bradley was more impressive. Tim definitely stole the last 3 rounds no doubt. And he did all with a fractured left foot and a sprained right ankle. Props to a warrior.
It did worry me a bit that maybe it wasn't Tim adjusting but rather, Pac slowing down. I hope that's not the case, but we'll see in the rematch.
| Quote: |
| Having said that, Pac's inability to finish off Bradley makes me feel he wouldn't fare so well against Mayweather. Bring on Alvarez or Rios, I say (tho I don't recall if their weight makes that possible). |
Both guys are in different weight classes (Rios too small and Canelo too big) but I'm sure they wouldn't mind meeting Pacquiao's weight to get a big payday. It won't matter though because Arum is keeping all the big fights within Top Rank. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Some of the Mothers Said wrote: |
fermentation Did you watch the fight again? What did you think this time?
Oh, for those of you who remember him, give a moment up for Cuba's Teofilo Stevenson, the legend amateur boxer who died from a heart attack on Monday aged 60.
He dominated amateur boxing for fourteen years, and became the first fighter to win the Olympic gold medal in the same division three times. (Super Heavy weight)
He had 302 victories in 321 bouts.
He was asked to give up his amateur status to fight Ali, but said "What is one million dollars compared with the love of eight million Cubans?" |
Fort the fallen. It's such a damn shame Cuba didn't and doesn't legalize pro boxing.
As for the fight, I scored it for Tim on my second viewing with the Associations of Boxing Comissions rule book in hand (technically on my firefox window). Round by round, I feel he won more fights. I just didn't see enough activity from Pacquiao and I think people overstate how much of an affect his punches had on Bradley. Like I said before, it could've gone either way and I wouldn't have been displeased if it went to Pac. It was that close and I think if people saw the fight again, this outrage might die down. One of the judges also went on record explaining his position. If it was any other fighter, people would say, "well, I disgree with that decision" and move on, but because it's Pacquiao, people act like the sky is falling. It is definitely not a robbery or a "fix" in my opinion.
| Dave Chance wrote: |
Finally saw the full fight...I think it comes down to how one scores a fight.
If you're looking at who is obviously in charge of most of the fight, who lands the far heavier punches, statistically lands far more punches, and who is just stronger in skill and aura, there's no question that Pac won. |
I actually didn't think Pac controlled the fight at all, except for a few rounds where he was landing those lead left hands. Even then Bradley was more active by consistently throwing more punches. I mostly saw Manny stepping forward while Tim was jabbing at his guard. Some of those jabbed sneaked in. Manny's workrate was simply too low for the majority of the rounds and he would try to win it by throwing a flurry at the end. While he did catch Tim with some of these (especially the 4th round where Tim rolled his ankle), a lot of the punches didn't land cleanly because Tim's movement. Tim was never visibly in trouble nor staggered. Tim also threw back after rolling and landed some clean right hands.
I was really impressed by Bradley's gradual adjustment later in the fight where he was timing Pac and countering Pac's jab with clean left hooks and Pac's straight with right hands. Defense wise, Pac was landing those lead lefts and later a left straight to the body-right hook upstairs combo, but Tim adjusted and Pac stopped landing them later. Defensively (another facet of scoring) I thought Bradley was more impressive. Tim definitely stole the last 3 rounds no doubt. And he did all with a fractured left foot and a sprained right ankle. Props to a warrior.
It did worry me a bit that maybe it wasn't Tim adjusting but rather, Pac slowing down. I hope that's not the case, but we'll see in the rematch.
| Quote: |
| Having said that, Pac's inability to finish off Bradley makes me feel he wouldn't fare so well against Mayweather. Bring on Alvarez or Rios, I say (tho I don't recall if their weight makes that possible). |
Both guys are in different weight classes (Rios too small and Canelo too big) but I'm sure they wouldn't mind meeting Pacquiao's weight to get a big payday. It won't matter though because Arum is keeping all the big fights within Top Rank. |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| Some of the Mothers Said wrote: |
fermentation Did you watch the fight again? What did you think this time?
Oh, for those of you who remember him, give a moment up for Cuba's Teofilo Stevenson, the legend amateur boxer who died from a heart attack on Monday aged 60.
He dominated amateur boxing for fourteen years, and became the first fighter to win the Olympic gold medal in the same division three times. (Super Heavy weight)
He had 302 victories in 321 bouts.
He was asked to give up his amateur status to fight Ali, but said "What is one million dollars compared with the love of eight million Cubans?" |
Fort the fallen. It's such a damn shame Cuba didn't and doesn't legalize pro boxing.
As for the fight, I scored it for Tim on my second viewing with the Associations of Boxing Comissions rule book in hand (technically on my firefox window). Round by round, I feel he won more fights. I just didn't see enough activity from Pacquiao and I think people overstate how much of an affect his punches had on Bradley. Like I said before, it could've gone either way and I wouldn't have been displeased if it went to Pac. It was that close and I think if people saw the fight again, this outrage might die down. One of the judges also went on record explaining his position. If it was any other fighter, people would say, "well, I disgree with that decision" and move on, but because it's Pacquiao, people act like the sky is falling. It is definitely not a robbery or a "fix" in my opinion.
| Dave Chance wrote: |
Finally saw the full fight...I think it comes down to how one scores a fight.
If you're looking at who is obviously in charge of most of the fight, who lands the far heavier punches, statistically lands far more punches, and who is just stronger in skill and aura, there's no question that Pac won. |
I actually didn't think Pac controlled the fight at all, except for a few rounds where he was landing those lead left hands. Even then Bradley was more active by consistently throwing more punches. I mostly saw Manny stepping forward while Tim was jabbing at his guard. Some of those jabbed sneaked in. Manny's workrate was simply too low for the majority of the rounds and he would try to win it by throwing a flurry at the end. While he did catch Tim with some of these (especially the 4th round where Tim rolled his ankle), a lot of the punches didn't land cleanly because Tim's movement. Tim was never visibly in trouble nor staggered. Tim also threw back after rolling and landed some clean right hands.
I was really impressed by Bradley's gradual adjustment later in the fight where he was timing Pac and countering Pac's jab with clean left hooks and Pac's straight with right hands. Defense wise, Pac was landing those lead lefts and later a left straight to the body-right hook upstairs combo, but Tim adjusted and Pac stopped landing them later. Defensively (another facet of scoring) I thought Bradley was more impressive. Tim definitely stole the last 3 rounds no doubt. And he did all with a fractured left foot and a sprained right ankle. Props to a warrior.
It did worry me a bit that maybe it wasn't Tim adjusting but rather, Pac slowing down. I hope that's not the case, but we'll see in the rematch.
| Quote: |
| Having said that, Pac's inability to finish off Bradley makes me feel he wouldn't fare so well against Mayweather. Bring on Alvarez or Rios, I say (tho I don't recall if their weight makes that possible). |
Both guys are in different weight classes (Rios too small and Canelo too big) but I'm sure they wouldn't mind meeting Pacquiao's weight to get a big payday. It won't matter though because Arum is keeping all the big fights within Top Rank. |
Ah, I meant I want those dudes to take on Mayweather. I feel like (although still superior to most) Pac's getting to the end of the road. |
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tiger fancini
Joined: 21 Mar 2006
Location: Testicles for Eyes
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Chance wrote: |
| but to dethrone someone like Pac, in my view you've got to do a heck of a lot more, this ain't no amateur 'I scored another point cos I touched his face', this requires you to rock the champ with some thunderous blows, get'im in serious trouble, and move the earth a bit. |
Absolutely. Like Holyfield did in his legendary 1996 first fight against Tyson (The one before the ear-biting incident). Holyfield damaged Tyson in that bout.
| Dave Chance wrote: |
| Having said that, Pac's inability to finish off Bradley makes me feel he wouldn't fare so well against Mayweather. Bring on Alvarez or Rios, I say (tho I don't recall if their weight makes that possible). |
I think the problem is that Pac didn't seriously damage Bradley. He landed lots of good shots early on, but there was no killer finish, like the one that finished off Hatton a few years ago. No knock down, no blood, just a sore ankle! And Bradley weathered it, so he does deserve credit for that. If Pac wants to win the re-match, he's going to have to do more. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave Chance wrote: |
Ah, I meant I want those dudes to take on Mayweather. I feel like (although still superior to most) Pac's getting to the end of the road. |
Oh man, Rios would get killed. He's nowhere near Floyd, and I doubt he ever will. I don't think Canelo's ready but I'd watch that fight. He'll see how he does in the Ortiz bout that's supposed to happen.
There's also a Chavez Jr. fight (vs Andy Lee) this weekend yall! |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| Dave Chance wrote: |
Ah, I meant I want those dudes to take on Mayweather. I feel like (although still superior to most) Pac's getting to the end of the road. |
Oh man, Rios would get killed. He's nowhere near Floyd, and I doubt he ever will. I don't think Canelo's ready but I'd watch that fight. He'll see how he does in the Ortiz bout that's supposed to happen.
There's also a Chavez Jr. fight (vs Andy Lee) this weekend yall! |
Yeah I know, but it'd just be fun to throw down a 10 dollar bet on the off chance that Rios catches him with a flurry or two...some other interesting bout happening in a coupla weeks, can't recall now... |
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Dave Chance
Joined: 30 May 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:54 am Post subject: |
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June 13 (Bloomberg) -- Manny Pacquiao's loss to undefeated Timothy Bradley in a June 9 title fight will be reviewed by the World Boxing Organization's championship committee after complaints about the judging.
Pacquiao, an eight-time world boxing champion, suffered his first defeat in seven years when two of three judges scored the WBO welterweight bout in favor of Bradley. The decision prompted jeers from the crowd at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas and led Irish sportsbook Paddy Power to refund bets on anyone who had wagered on the Filipino fighter.
The WBO's championship committee will examine video of the fight with "five recognized international judges" and then make a ruling on the original decision, WBO President Francisco "Paco" Valcarcel said in a statement.
Pacquiao, 33, landed 253 total punches to Bradley's 159 and out-landed Bradley with power punches 190-108, according to CompuBox, a computerized punch scoring system.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2012/06/13/bloomberg_articlesM5KFSP6VDKHW01-M5KHY.DTL#ixzz1xkwSIs98 |
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