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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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 Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Some people ardently believe that foreign languages should be taught exclusively in the target language, |
I'm not one of them. I have taken Korean classes I've taught english using the student's L1 in various countries, I've watched Korean teachers teach almost entirely in English and I've watched Korean teachers almost entirely in Korean. I agree that for beginners some L1 may be necessary, though I thought there was a bit too much of it in the Korean classes I took. From the perspective of a teaching English pronunciation lesson, those videos had way too much L1 in them. Fair enough if you were actually just intending to produce a 'how to' video in the student's language but you said yourself you were 'teaching' and you seemed to be recommending people use them in their lessons. I personally wouldn't advise it. Also In the second video you said that the 'l' sound is similar to a sound in Korean, which I would also take issue with. |
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journal
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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actually, i said "it's not the korean 'L'."
"ㄹ바름 말고요."
and throughout the video, or at least a couple of times, i purposely mispronounced the key words using a 'korean L' sound, to demonstrate what NOT to do. so...make sure you know what you're taking issue with.
what's the difference between a 'how to' and 'teaching'?
hey folks, here's how to do something. - that's not teaching?
i am most definitely recommending - even personally advising that - people use them in their lessons. each one is a quick sniper shot to fixing common problems that students - and teachers - seem to have trouble fixing. i whittled the videos down to the bare necessities. do this, don't do that, watch me, try it, you're probably doing it this way, try again, the end. now students at least know what to focus on. 'ah, stick out the tongue.' 'ah, don't touch the roof of the mouth.' 'ah, teeth and lip together.'
edited for spelling. thanks diver.
Last edited by journal on Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:28 am Post subject: |
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what's the difference between a 'how to' and 'teaching'?
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What I meant was your video seemed more like a dry factual explanation of how to do something in the same style as a 'how to tile your bathroom' or something like that. Obviously in a real communicative lesson the teacher would be involving the students in a pronunciation class. Firstly greeting them in English to reinforce the language for that function, then eliciting whether they know the word for 'tongue', lips etc or not, drawing a diagram of the mouth, seeing if the students can tell you the different parts, showing them physically where the tongue goes, getting a laugh from them, building rapport etc etc...why, instead of doing all that would a teacher want to put on a video of another teacher the students have never met just talking at
them in their own language? in the same way that all their Korean teachers have done in the past
Aha I hear you respond, because it saves time. Yes it saves time if you just want to communicate with the students how to pronounce the different sounds. Instead of just doing that you can find out what the students know, teach them some new vocabulary, interact with them and show them how even at a lower level you can communicate something to them in the target language. Give them a much stronger feeling that they've achieved something |
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journal
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:52 am Post subject: |
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edwardcatflap, just don't use them, and be done with it.
thanks for watching. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:52 am Post subject: |
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There are 2 sides to everything.
I agree with a lot of what Edward has posted, but I'd like to say that
one thing he may or may not have realized.
Apart from the video,
if this guy were actually in the classroom teaching,
the students would realize that his Korean is really good.
Therefore he can understand everything they say,
Therefore they can't get away with all the chatter and backtalk that students often do.
It is a double edged sword.
Once students see him using Korean, they will expect him to use it all the time. But there's also an advantage there
if he's on the ball enough to realize it.
Those of us who are forced to work with co-teachers
know full well the dangers of having the Koteacher go off for 10 ten minutes in Korean, something that should have taken 5 seconds.
I often wonder if the co-teachers are misunderstanding what is necessary and are flapping on and on about things that students already know.
The advantage he now has is that he can use Korean when necessary, but he can also be in control of how much Korean is used and can
keep it down to a minimum to get the students trying to understand
English as much as possible.
Last edited by some waygug-in on Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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journal
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:00 am Post subject: |
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actually, when i taught this in class (used it for 3 years or so), it was in english, with diagrams, and all the rapport you could ever hope for. i probably spent 15 or 20 minutes going over the stuff i cover in the three vids. i have a few other 'pronunciation points' i used to do too. might throw them together into a vid as well.
anyway, i made the vids in korean so they'd actually be used by koreans. most people at home (or on the subway, or wherever), aren't going to watch something like that - in their free time - unless it's package in an easy to swallow, bite-sized chunk. honestly, my target wasn't teachers.
they're just a helpful tool. i'm not saying they have to be a replacement for a full class. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you going to do a video on the difference between "widdle" and "whittle"? |
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journal
Joined: 26 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| hey diver, a bit over the top, but thanks. fixed. |
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jvalmer
Joined: 06 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| It's iffy teaching in Korean to Korean students, unless you're teaching adults, or have a perfect accent. Otherwise kids will just laugh at your accent. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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One thing my adult students told me,
they already know how to make those sounds, they are just too lazy to practice them.
It's just easier for them to say "perpect" than make the extra effort to say it right.
I do salute you for your efforts though.
It may help some beginner students. |
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Slaps
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Location: Sitting on top of the world
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:58 am Post subject: |
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Not bad OP but this has been done before.
Check out this guy to see what you're up against. http://englishinkorean.com/ |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| Yes, another guy who decided to learn Korean before learning how to teach properly. Why do they insist on trying to teach those useless slang/idioms to people like 'what's with the....' are they getting their ideas from Robin Williams in good morning Vietnam? |
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Slaps
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Location: Sitting on top of the world
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Yes, another guy who decided to learn Korean before learning how to teach properly. Why do they insist on trying to teach those useless slang/idioms to people like 'what's with the....' are they getting their ideas from Robin Williams in good morning Vietnam? |
I think that the thousands of people who visit his website and make his podcast the no.1 rated education podcast on Korean iTunes beg to differ. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:08 am Post subject: |
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| Come on, the guy was teaching advanced idioms/fixed expressions like 'what's with the....' in Korean.do you really think korean students of English at that level need one 1 minute 42 seconds of Korean to introduce them to an idiom like that? If they visit his podcast and think they're learning from it it's because three quarters of it is in their language and it's a lot easier to listen to. Not because it's really improving their English. Kind of like the guy who says you can lose weight without doing any exercise will always be the most popular podcast/personal trainer. It's human nature. |
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