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s.tickbeat
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Location: Gimhae
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 Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:58 am Post subject: Sketchy hagwon dealings |
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So my pay in my contract is 2,300,000. My school tells me that they're under-reporting my income at 1,600,000. So what would my health insurance deductions be, based on both numbers? They're currently deducting 71,065W which (according to my math) means that, going by the under-reported number, they are not in fact paying 'their half' of the health insurance plan.
But, can someone here just double-check that for me?
Also, how do you know if you're a sub-contractor or if you're an employee (for pension reasons)? |
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Skippy
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:33 am Post subject: |
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For to see wether you are a contractor or an employee, you need to look at your contract.
If you tax rate is 3.3 percent you are likely hired as a subcontractor. Maybe. Other indicators of being hired as a sub contractor is not registered with pension or health insurance.
As to your health insurance - the basic rate is 5.08% (Got 5.80% also for NIC site). So I might be off a bit on the rate.
So using a calculator 1,600,000 * 5.08 % = 81280.
Now that should be the total contribution. In a proper world if you school was going 50-50. Your half would be 40640 won. To be matched by your employee. Looks like your school is collecting at an old rate of legit wage of 2.3 million.
Something is not right. Ignoring the underreporting of your true wage. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| You're losing out on a whole bunch of pension if you allow them to underreport your income without complaint. |
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s.tickbeat
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Location: Gimhae
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| Nah, I'm out on pension. I realized that a few months ago and decided that it wasn't worth quitting over (with the expenses for docs & pension fees). But now I see my school being super sketchy, and if they're deducting health insurance fees at the proper rate for 1,600 000 then in the past 6 months they've stolen roughly 450,000 from me. There's still over 20,000 missing from each paycheck that's unaccounted for in the pay stubs I got today. It's been magically disappeared! |
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curlyhoward
Joined: 03 Dec 2008
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| s.tickbeat wrote: |
| Nah, I'm out on pension. I realized that a few months ago and decided that it wasn't worth quitting over (with the expenses for docs & pension fees). But now I see my school being super sketchy, and if they're deducting health insurance fees at the proper rate for 1,600 000 then in the past 6 months they've stolen roughly 450,000 from me. There's still over 20,000 missing from each paycheck that's unaccounted for in the pay stubs I got today. It's been magically disappeared! |
And you can bet your last months salary that this is just the beginning. Oh never mind, they are probably planning on keeping most of your last months salary anyway. Sorry, I'm not poking fun at you, but be prepared. This sounds like a nightmare in the making. |
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Troglodyte
Joined: 06 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| s.tickbeat wrote: |
| Nah, I'm out on pension. I realized that a few months ago and decided that it wasn't worth quitting over (with the expenses for docs & pension fees). |
What expenses for docs? What documents do you need to enroll in pension?
What country are you from? If you're from a country that can get the pension back when you leave, then the pension fees are irrelevant because you get it all back later.
If the school is doing all of this, then how do you know they'll give you severance and your last pay check at the end?
You can see if you're an independent contractor in the contract. It must say it. If not (and particularly if it says "employee") but the school registered you as one then you can go to the labor board to complain and get it straightened out. (That is, unless the trip to the labor board office is more trouble than your job security and salary are worth. In that case, just sit back and wait for the school to throw you away like a dirty tissue when they're done with you.) |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| s.tickbeat wrote: |
| Nah, I'm out on pension. I realized that a few months ago and decided that it wasn't worth quitting over (with the expenses for docs & pension fees). |
Here's my favorite question for those in your situation: Is it worth not setting aside the appropriate amount each month yourself and then, during your very last month of the contract, going to the Pension Office with proof of your actual income (contract/paystubs/bank book) so the Pension Office can dun the boss and you for the unpaid amounts? Of course, dunning you isn't a problem because you would have set the money aside.
Last edited by CentralCali on Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:25 am Post subject: Re: Sketchy hagwon dealings |
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| s.tickbeat wrote: |
So my pay in my contract is 2,300,000. My school tells me that they're under-reporting my income at 1,600,000. So what would my health insurance deductions be, based on both numbers? They're currently deducting 71,065W which (according to my math) means that, going by the under-reported number, they are not in fact paying 'their half' of the health insurance plan.
But, can someone here just double-check that for me?
Also, how do you know if you're a sub-contractor or if you're an employee (for pension reasons)? |
You do not state whether you have the NHIC (Korean National Health Insurance) or some other private insurance. If you have NHIC then you will probably have been enrolled for Pension as well. They are linked, so enrolling you in one means the other will find out if you're not in both.
Your income tax rate should be according to the NTS site. There's a good chance you'll be cheated on tax withholding as well. The employer overwithholds (at 3.3 or whatever rate) but only pays in the actual amount due which is pretty close to the NTS site.
You will need to do a little research to answer your questions:
Check with both the Pension and Health Ins. offices. Find out if you're enrolled, what your salary was reported as, what the monthly payments are and whether your boss is up to date in making the payments. |
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s.tickbeat
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Location: Gimhae
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Here's my favorite question for those in your situation: Is it worth not setting aside the appropriate amount each month yourself and then, during your very last month of the contract, going to the Pension Office with proof of your actual income (contract/paystubs/bank book) so the Pension Office can dun the boss and you for the unpaid amounts? Of course, dunning you isn't a problem becaus you would have set the money aside. |
It doesn't matter. I'm a sub-contractor, so I'm not entitled to the pension anyway.
| Quote: |
| You do not state whether you have the NHIC (Korean National Health Insurance) or some other private insurance. If you have NHIC then you will probably have been enrolled for Pension as well. They are linked, so enrolling you in one means the other will find out if you're not in both. |
I've got the national insurance (woo!)
What my boss is saying is that they're deducting my taxes and health insurance from my pay, holding onto it until a bill comes in, and then paying the bill. This month I got a bill from the NHIC for 142,340 W and they paid it.
Anyway, I'm not worried about them paying my last month's pay or not because I'm not leaving the country or the city, I'm just going to order my docs and find another job. Also, if they want me to put in the four weeks at the end, they're going to paying me weekly. I'm not cut out for this BS. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| s.tickbeat wrote: |
| It doesn't matter. I'm a sub-contractor, so I'm not entitled to the pension anyway. |
Sub-contractor or "independent contractor"? If the latter, are you on an E-2? |
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s.tickbeat
Joined: 21 Feb 2010
Location: Gimhae
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| E-2, yeah. They said 'freelancer' |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:42 am Post subject: |
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| Freelancer, huh? That's pure malarkey, also known as Independent Contractor. You're screwed. In short, E-2 as anything other than employee is not correct. CDI is a major chain facing a suit over that stunt. IIRC, the suit is a class-action suit. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| s.tickbeat wrote: |
| Quote: |
Here's my favorite question for those in your situation: Is it worth not setting aside the appropriate amount each month yourself and then, during your very last month of the contract, going to the Pension Office with proof of your actual income (contract/paystubs/bank book) so the Pension Office can dun the boss and you for the unpaid amounts? Of course, dunning you isn't a problem becaus you would have set the money aside. |
It doesn't matter. I'm a sub-contractor, so I'm not entitled to the pension anyway.
| Quote: |
| You do not state whether you have the NHIC (Korean National Health Insurance) or some other private insurance. If you have NHIC then you will probably have been enrolled for Pension as well. They are linked, so enrolling you in one means the other will find out if you're not in both. |
I've got the national insurance (woo!)
What my boss is saying is that they're deducting my taxes and health insurance from my pay, holding onto it until a bill comes in, and then paying the bill. This month I got a bill from the NHIC for 142,340 W and they paid it.
Anyway, I'm not worried about them paying my last month's pay or not because I'm not leaving the country or the city, I'm just going to order my docs and find another job. Also, if they want me to put in the four weeks at the end, they're going to paying me weekly. I'm not cut out for this BS. |
According to what you've written, you have a contract as an Independent Contractor or freelancer, as they called it. This is perfectly legal for E2 visa holders, so no problem.
Your NHIC bill came to you according to your post, so this means you are properly enrolled as an IC for NHIC and you are responsible for the bills. The amount is about right and the amount withheld for the school to pay on your behalf is a few won below one half. All of this is proper. Some schools pay half of the health insurance for ICs even though the IC is legally responsible for the full amount.
Payments are normally not made to NHIC until bills are sent out, which occurs monthly. Your school is correct on this.
You are also legally required to enroll yourself for the National Pension. If it's not in your contract for your school to contribute, you are on the hook for the full 9% of your earnings. As an IC or freelancer you are not exempt. The Pension office may get around to contracting you about your past due amounts eventually. If you are from one of the countries that allows for a refund of the amounts paid, it will be a matter of making the payments and claiming them back when you leave Korea.
At the present time it is legal to be an Independent Contractor on an E2 visa. About half of all Korean workers are ICs, part time or freelancers of some kind.
There was and may still be a lawsuit against CDI about a number of financial issues, all of which could be resolved in court or out of court without any effect on the current IC rules. It is possible that a court could change the IC rules for those on an E2 visa, however, such a ruling would involve more than one government department and due to equal treatment rules - most E2 teachers here complain of NOT being treated equally with Koreans - it is in the interest of Koreans and the court to avoid any such change. In addition, the CDI lawsuit has been long discussed, but there have been no reported developments for a very long time indicating it may have been settled, dismissed, dropped, shelved, or is bogged down. Legal actions such as this often disappear due to the difficulty of proceeding, small amounts, lack of interest by the claimants, legal intricacies and probability of failure in court. |
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heartcooxbrain
Joined: 10 Aug 2013
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:22 am Post subject: |
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I just found out today that my hagwon hasn't provided my pension plan and that the medical insurance that I signed up for isn't the national medical insurance. In my contract, it states that they will take 3.3% of my paycheck as a "residential" tax.. no where does it say that I will be working as a subcontractor or a freelancer, but the benefits that I haven't been given (3.3% "residential tax" deduction, no national medical insurance, no pension) indicate to me, that I have been working unwittingly as a freelancer all along.
How does the whole freelancer thing work for an F4 who has been in Korea for less than a year? I thought that hagwons weren't allowed to take tax from my paycheck since I haven't been in Korea for long enough. My contract ends in two weeks, is there any way I can get compensated for the pension plan that they didn't give me, even though it is stated in my contract?? Also, is it legal for them to not give me a pension plan or national health insurance if I'm registered as a freelancer at the board of education?
I guess there is a minuscule chance that they are giving me a lump sum almost equivalent to their half of the pension plan + severance pay but I know that's highly unlikely. |
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Wildbore
Joined: 17 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:11 am Post subject: |
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142,340 is NOT under-reported. 2,300,000 x 5.89% (premium%) = 135,470. 135,470 + Long-term care insurance 8,873 (6.55% of premium) = 144,343.
The OP reported about 142,000, which is very close to how much someone reported as self-employed (IC) and making 2,300,000 would pay. Therefore the income for NHIC is NOT under-reported.
| ontheway wrote: |
Your NHIC bill came to you according to your post, so this means you are properly enrolled as an IC for NHIC and you are responsible for the bills. The amount is about right and the amount withheld for the school to pay on your behalf is a few won below one half. All of this is proper. Some schools pay half of the health insurance for ICs even though the IC is legally responsible for the full amount. |
a) It's far from proper. That's EXTREMELY DODGY. Unless the academy has power of attorney, there is NO WAY they should have been able to enroll a contract worker for health insurance. ICs can only self-enroll. That's fraud, plain and simple. Good thing they did not in fact under-report his income, or the OP would be blamed for income under-reporting.
Also, perhaps he did sign the forms. The type of insurance was definitely mis-represented to him, as he appears to have thought it was some sort of workplace-based insurance.
In the end, sounds like another scam to avoid pension. They should forge his papers again and illegally sign him up for self-employed pension, oh wait........ that would defeat the point of the scam.
Last edited by Wildbore on Wed Aug 14, 2013 10:41 am; edited 2 times in total |
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