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happiness
Joined: 04 Sep 2010
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 Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
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| Personally I learned very early sat in korea when I get back I have to double or triple texas even about korea I have to ask of the carribean that's true |
I know those words but that sentence doesn't make any sense. |
lol. sorry steel. i did it in a hurry with cellphone dictation and then forgot to check it. i should write a essay like that.....ha
i corrected my post now, please reread.... |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| happiness wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
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| Personally I learned very early sat in korea when I get back I have to double or triple texas even about korea I have to ask of the carribean that's true |
I know those words but that sentence doesn't make any sense. |
lol. sorry steel. i did it in a hurry with cellphone dictation and then forgot to check it. i should write a essay like that.....ha
i corrected my post now, please reread.... |
There should be a Dave's thread where every post is in that form! |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| maximmm wrote: |
Everyone knows that Japan has apologized and continues to do so once a year or so. The problem is not that they have not apologized but that every Korean prime minister wants to hear a new apology in person - dismissing every other apology made in the past.
If this is so, I wonder what happens when you take a loan from a Korean... |
Its no different to having to provide a new criminal background check over and over.
Traditionally, Koreans don't keep records. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:51 am Post subject: |
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
I mean....you're not stupid Steelrails. I've read your posts, but you're either ignorant or a liar.
| Steelrails wrote: |
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| Everyone knows that Japan has apologized and continues to do so once a year or so. The problem is not that they have not apologized but that every Korean prime minister wants to hear a new apology in person - dismissing every other apology made in the past |
Actually they haven't. They issue "Statements of Regret" which, diplomatically, are not the same things as formal apologies. Think the legalistic apologies you get from corporations that don't admit formal wrongdoing.
That being said, I can't blame the Japanese for only issuing those statements. Doing so could open themselves up to all kinds of legal and diplomatic hassles.
Most importantly, what in the world does the current Emperor have to do with the past? Unless the precocious youth was giving orders to IJA soldiers at the time, even then he'd still be a juvenile. It's one thing to seek compensation for victim's of crimes, its another to demand full formal apologies from someone who had nothing to do with the situation at hand and wasn't even an adult at the time.
This is a rather bellicose statement from President Lee. I can't see the Japanese people taking it too well. Put it this way- It's one thing to demand an apology from Gordon Brown or David Cameron, it's quite another to demand that Queen Elizabeth II apologize. Monarchs tend to be a more sensitive issue for nations. He's overplaying his hand. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| everything-is-everything wrote: |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
I mean....you're not stupid Steelrails. I've read your posts, but you're either ignorant or a liar.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Everyone knows that Japan has apologized and continues to do so once a year or so. The problem is not that they have not apologized but that every Korean prime minister wants to hear a new apology in person - dismissing every other apology made in the past |
Actually they haven't. They issue "Statements of Regret" which, diplomatically, are not the same things as formal apologies. Think the legalistic apologies you get from corporations that don't admit formal wrongdoing.
That being said, I can't blame the Japanese for only issuing those statements. Doing so could open themselves up to all kinds of legal and diplomatic hassles.
Most importantly, what in the world does the current Emperor have to do with the past? Unless the precocious youth was giving orders to IJA soldiers at the time, even then he'd still be a juvenile. It's one thing to seek compensation for victim's of crimes, its another to demand full formal apologies from someone who had nothing to do with the situation at hand and wasn't even an adult at the time.
This is a rather bellicose statement from President Lee. I can't see the Japanese people taking it too well. Put it this way- It's one thing to demand an apology from Gordon Brown or David Cameron, it's quite another to demand that Queen Elizabeth II apologize. Monarchs tend to be a more sensitive issue for nations. He's overplaying his hand. |
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You have to read into the wording of the statements.
Most of them express regret "for the suffering of the people" NOT the actions committed by the Japanese.
And as has been mentioned, the few that do are either not a formal apology by the government, but rather a statement by an individual OR are followed by denials from the Diet.
Also as a Constitutional Monarchy, that was something more than that during the war (the Emperor was a diety), there is something to be said for responsibility with the ruling house, though I am indifferent about that.
Let's look at the famed "Muryama Declaration"
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| Japan's actions in a certain period of the past not only claimed numerous victims here in Japan but also left the peoples of neighboring Asia and elsewhere with scars that are painful even today. I am thus taking this opportunity to state my belief, based on my profound remorse for these acts of aggression, colonial rule, and the like caused such unbearable suffering and sorrow for so many people, that Japan's future path should be one of making every effort to build world peace in line with my no-war commitment. It is imperative for us Japanese to look squarely to our history with the peoples of neighboring Asia and elsewhere. Only with solid basis of mutual understanding and confidence that can be built through overcoming the pain on both sides, can we and the peoples of neighboring countries together clear up the future of Asia-Pacific.... On the issue of wartime 'comfort women,' which seriously stained the honor and dignity of many women, I would like to take this opportunity once again to express my profound and sincere remorse and apologies. With regard to this issue as well, I believe that one way of demonstrating such feelings of apologies and remorse is to work to further promote mutual understanding with the countries and areas concerned as well as to face squarely to the past and ensure that it is rightly conveyed to future generations. This initiative, in this sense, has been drawn up consistent with such belief |
If you parse his words carefully you'll see "remorse", which is not the same diplomatically as an apology often used.
Also he offers "my apology" rather than an apology for the government.
As for actions of the Japanese, he doesn't spell them out. He just says "It is imperative for us to look squarely at our history"
In regards to comfort women his apology is for "the issue" and the "stain" endured, without specifically enumerating what was involved.
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| On the occasion of the 50th anniversary of the end of World War II, this House offers its sincere condolences to those who fell in action and victims of wars and similar actions all over the world. Solemnly reflecting upon many instances of colonial rule and acts of aggression in the modern history of the world, and recognizing that Japan carried out those acts in the past, inflicting pain and suffering upon the peoples of other countries, especially in Asia, the Members of this House express a sense of deep remorse |
Again, remorse.
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| During a certain period in the not-too-distant past, Japan, through its colonial rule and aggression, caused tremendous damage and suffering to the people of many countries, particularly those of Asia. In the hope that no such mistake will be made in the future, I regard, in a spirit of humanity, these irrefutable facts of history, and express here once again my feelings of deep remorse and state my heartfelt apology |
Again, my apology.
You might think this is nitpicking or reading too far into things, but these are diplomatic statements filled with legalese. The difference between apology, condolences, remorse, accepting responsibility, and similar statements is significant in government statements. They each carry different weight.
Similarly with a personal apology by a government official vs. a statement like "On behalf of the Japanese nation/people".
You'll also notice a different acknowledgement of responsibility when it comes to the United States and the U.K. vs. Japan, Korea, the Philippines, etc. Basically, the more influential the nation, the greater the number of statements. The fact that the U.S. can actually get formal government apologies for specific actions, and the Philippines gets vague statements and limited acknowledgment, confirms to many in Asia what the true feelings and views of the Japanese are. (Whether that is true or not, that's how it's perceived)
Notice how leaders won't hesitate to say something like "On behalf of the United States, we welcome you to the White House" during jolly diplomatic photo-ops. Now to find a statement like that in regards to some calamity that some might call war crimes? Always the ephemeral "we" or "I" or phrases like "condolences".
Anyone who studies International Relations and the like understands the significance or these kinds of wordings. You really have to read between the lines to understand what they mean, but those that do understand recognize what is truly being said.
Think this is all just hot air? World War III hung on the difference between the words "Blockade" and "Quarantine", even though America for all practical effect was blockading Cuba, that fact that diplomatically it was declared that the Organization of American States was issuing a "quarantine" gave it diplomatic legitimacy and limited the Soviet position.
Now, as I said, I don't see any reason for the current Emperor to apologize, but to say that Japan has "done its best" to apologize is a farce. One need only look at the actions and statements of Germany vs. Japan to see a significant disparity. It doesn't help that the statements have basically had to be wrung out of Japan where as the Germans were rather desperate to do anything to wash their hands of blood. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ What a load of nonsense. |
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everything-is-everything
Joined: 06 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
You might think this is nitpicking or reading too far into things, but these are diplomatic statements filled with legalese.
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You're being selective in your reality Steel. In the list I provided it clearly shows signs of the Japanese apologizing.
For example:
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| April 18, 1990. Minister of Foreign Affairs Taro Nakayama. "Japan is deeply sorry for the tragedy in which these (Korean) people were moved to Sakhalin not of their own free will but by the design of the Japanese government and had to remain there after the conclusion of the war" (188th National Diet Session Lower House Committee of Foreign Affairs). |
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| January 1, 1992. Prime Minister Kiichi Miyazawa. "[Concerning the comfort women,] I apologize from the bottom of my heart and feel remorse for those people who suffered indescribable hardships" (Press conference). |
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| 2001. Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi (Also signed by all the prime ministers since 1995, including Ryutaro Hashimoto, Keizō Obuchi, Yoshirō Mori). "As Prime Minister of Japan, I thus extend anew my most sincere apologies and remorse to all the women who underwent immeasurable and painful experiences and suffered incurable physical and psychological wounds as comfort women. We must not evade the weight of the past, nor should we eva | | | |
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