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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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 Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| recessiontime wrote: |
nobody here considers fasting a brain-washing tool?
Guess Im one of the select few that's happy China is curb stomping religion |
Nah it's an identity tool. |
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Panda
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
... the Chinese state treats most of the minorities with the enlightened condescension of an older brother.
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The best the West can do is politely request that the Han be merciful in their imperialist aims and avoid the kind of imperialist misconduct running rife throughout our own history. |
Compared with Han Chinese, the minorities in China are subject to many preferential policies, such as they can have more babies, lower standard for university entrance exam, etc. Uighers also dominate pocket-picking business in many mainland cities and the government did little to stop them, for fear of being called "racist" or "imperialist"
In history Han Chinese was never too aggressive, compared to their neighbors, such as Mongolians, Jurchens, Japanese. etc. Han Chinese has been conquered by other nationalities for several times, but no matter you call China Yuan (founded by Mongolian) or Qing (by Jurchens) empire, it is Han Chinese culture that eventually dominates the country and assimilates other cultures.
I see the giving food to their starving Muslim siblings thing as one of the tricks Han Chinese play to assimilate others, it's probably not imperialism though |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:37 am Post subject: |
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| Panda wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
... the Chinese state treats most of the minorities with the enlightened condescension of an older brother.
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The best the West can do is politely request that the Han be merciful in their imperialist aims and avoid the kind of imperialist misconduct running rife throughout our own history. |
Compared with Han Chinese, the minorities in China are subject to many preferential policies, such as they can have more babies, lower standard for university entrance exam, etc. Uighers also dominate pocket-picking business in many mainland cities and the government did little to stop them, for fear of being called "racist" or "imperialist"
In history Han Chinese was never too aggressive, compared to their neighbors, such as Mongolians, Jurchens, Japanese. etc. Han Chinese has been conquered by other nationalities for several times, but no matter you call China Yuan (founded by Mongolian) or Qing (by Jurchens) empire, it is Han Chinese culture that eventually dominates the country and assimilates other cultures.
I see the giving food to their starving Muslim siblings thing as one of the tricks Han Chinese play to assimilate others, it's probably not imperialism though |
So would you consider the Yuan or Qing Dynasties imperialist? I know standard Chinese Communist dogma considers them imperialist. |
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JustinC
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!
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| Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Panda wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
nobody here considers fasting a brain-washing tool?
Guess Im one of the select few that's happy China is curb stomping religion |
Nah, i think most people think the way you think but just remain quiet in order not to look rude. |
I don't remember typing thi.. Oh, wait ... |
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JustinC
Joined: 10 Mar 2012
Location: We Are The World!
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| Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Ramadan - putting the 'slim' back into Muslim. |
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12ax7
Joined: 07 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| How are they even going to enforce that? Ask everyone walking down the street if they've had lunch? |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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Xinjiang: Fast and Loose
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Xinjiang, the vast region in whose west lies the old Silk Road city of Kashgar, has a history of tension between the ethnic-Turkic, mostly Muslim, Uighurs who used to make up most of its population, and the authorities, dominated by ethnic-Han Chinese. During Ramadan, which comes to an end on August 19th, that tension has been exacerbated by the government�s intervention in religious practice.
It has been discouraging, and in some places even banning, Communist Party cadres, government officials, students and schoolchildren from fasting and attending mosques during working hours. �Every year it�s the same,� says one man, sporting the four-cornered embroidered green hat worn by many Uighurs. �But my children are Muslims. We just ignore it.�
Groups representing Uighur exiles say that this year the campaign has been more intense than usual. Xinjiang�s government has denied forcing people to break the fast. Hou Hanmin, a spokeswoman, was quoted by Global Times, a party-owned newspaper, saying that the government did, however, �encourage residents to eat properly for study and work purposes.� |
The Han are implementing these Ramadan anti-fasting provisions so 'residents can eat properly.'
Ramadan fasting occurs only when the sun is in the sky; Muslims are permitted to eat after dark and before sunrise. The fasting in Ramadan is supposed to bring Muslims closer to God. The constant emptiness and longing brought on upon a month of fasting reminds Muslims of God's presence and his mystery.
The godless in China have no experience of this. The Han themselves eat anything with legs. Thus, we should not be surprised that they will find any dietary abstention deviant. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:18 am Post subject: |
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Muslims are quick to state their belief in religious freedom when they're the ones persecuted.
..but quickly smother all other religions when they become the majority.  |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| recessiontime wrote: |
nobody here considers fasting a brain-washing tool?
Guess Im one of the select few that's happy China is curb stomping religion |
I'm actually pretty sure it's the other way around, at least in this case. China is trying to destroy it's minority cultures, and install the religion of the party in it's place. |
Exactly right. Where else has this happened? |
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Gorf
Joined: 25 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Call me a die-hard atheist but sometimes I wish every government in the world would step on the neck of religion. It's 2012, get rid of the sky wizards who watch you poop, already! |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Gorf wrote: |
| Call me a die-hard atheist but sometimes I wish every government in the world would step on the neck of religion. It's 2012, get rid of the sky wizards who watch you poop, already! |
The most notable atheist regimes are the Soviet Union and China. Man's natural impulses and biology dictate that if you get rid of religion some ideology will take its place and perform the same functions.
Heck, look at the atheists who fall into the trap of "if the world was just atheist..." or seeking to enforce their beliefs on others via the heel of their boot on someone's neck. Tell me that that isn't religion in a different form. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:03 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Gorf wrote: |
| Call me a die-hard atheist but sometimes I wish every government in the world would step on the neck of religion. It's 2012, get rid of the sky wizards who watch you poop, already! |
The most notable atheist regimes are the Soviet Union and China. Man's natural impulses and biology dictate that if you get rid of religion some ideology will take its place and perform the same functions.
Heck, look at the atheists who fall into the trap of "if the world was just atheist..." or seeking to enforce their beliefs on others via the heel of their boot on someone's neck. Tell me that that isn't religion in a different form. |
Atheism is certainly a faith-based belief system, even if it is simple, although I wouldn't call it a religion. There can be no evidence for the non-existence of a necessary being such as God.
But Gorf did qualify his statement, saying he 'sometimes wish[ed]' gov't would stamp out religion. I take it in his better moments he knows such gov't conduct would have unhappy consequences. |
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:04 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Man's natural impulses and biology dictate that if you get rid of religion some ideology will take its place and perform the same functions. |
This may have been true in the past...but there is still hope that people might wise up and learn from past mistakes.
Religion panders to ignorance and gullibility...the human bullshit meter is getting stronger...as you mentioned referring to the cult thread. |
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Panda
Joined: 25 Oct 2008
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:56 am Post subject: |
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Speaking as a non-Muslim woman, I think Islam is a sh!tty religion, but I do believe most Muslim women don't think so and would fight me because me being disrespectful.
The problem is they are born to the religion and not allowed to choose.The whole society is so strict in their rules. Imagine a man who is exposed to many different religions and free to choose what he wants.
Back to the topic, If China force any Muslim to eat during Ramadan, it would definitely irritate them...But if China just create an environment that Muslim would feel free to eat or not eat...a society that are more tolerant to other cultures...a spirit of "we are willing to change if we have better options"
The husband of one of my relatives is Hui (Chinese Muslim), he has been living with Han people all the time and loves pork, and he is just one of the many Muslims that have changed. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Panda wrote: |
| The problem is they are born to the religion and not allowed to choose.The whole society is so strict in their rules. Imagine a man who is exposed to many different religions and free to choose what he wants. |
There is no compulsion in religion. Qur�aan 2:256.
Nevertheless, the Chinese state fails to completely recognize this reality. China recognizes five registered religions, each regulated under the State Administration for Religious Affairs.
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| A significant number of non-sanctioned churches and temples exist, attended by locals and foreigners alike. Unregistered or underground churches are not officially banned, but are not permitted to openly conduct religious services. These bodies may face varying degrees of interference, harassment, and persecution by state and party organs. In some instances, unregistered religious believers and leaders have been charged with "illegal religious activities" or "disrupting social stability."[3] Religious believers have also been charged under article 300 of the criminal code, which forbids using heretical organizations to "undermine the implementation of the law."[5] An extrajudicial, Communist Party-led security organ called the 6-10 Office oversees the suppression of Falun Gong and, increasingly, other unregistered religious organizations. |
A few years ago, my uncle (by marriage) went to China to prosthelytize his evangelical brand of Christianity. He was followed, harassed, and eventually officials and agents made his mission more troublesome than beneficial to potential congregants. He wisely left rather than become implicated in human rights abuses. The attention lavished on my rather unimpressive uncle was disproportionate, and actually rather sad. Apparently Chinese agents believed he wished to incite a modern-day Taipingqiyi. Or something.
Freedom of religion doesn't mean freedom from religion. Rather, it means the State should permit religious practice whenever it does not conflict with facially neutral laws or regulations.
| Panda wrote: |
| Back to the topic, If China force any Muslim to eat during Ramadan, it would definitely irritate them...But if China just create an environment that Muslim would feel free to eat or not eat...a society that are more tolerant to other cultures...a spirit of "we are willing to change if we have better options" |
Good luck. The Chinese gov't doesn't have such power. The CCP has little power to make Hanzu more tolerant. It would be enough if the CCP could become neutral towards religious practice. But I won't hold my breath.
| Panda wrote: |
| The husband of one of my relatives is Hui (Chinese Muslim), he has been living with Han people all the time and loves pork, and he is just one of the many Muslims that have changed. |
It is both hilarious and sad how Chinese Han place such great emphasis over every little practice. So what if someone doesn't eat pork, what is it to me? And yet, when I was in Beijing interning, a great many of my co-workers mocked me (behind my back, of course) for my low-carb diet. I refused to eat rice. Thus, I was some kind of freak. 强硬态度太小气
Am I supposed to believe that if every Hui ate pork, this would be some kind of substantial improvement in their lives? Ditto with fasting during Ramadan. |
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