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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by slothrop on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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viciousdinosaur
Joined: 30 Apr 2012
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| I hear you Sloth, but does Thai have a large Thai-American population that makes up the majority of teachers there? Most of the people on this board are Korean-American and they can't help but take every slight against Korea as being a personal attack against them. |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject: |
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| viciousdinosaur wrote: |
| I hear you Sloth, but does Thai have a large Thai-American population that makes up the majority of teachers there? Most of the people on this board are Korean-American and they can't help but take every slight against Korea as being a personal attack against them. |
I'd LOVE to see you back this up. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
viciousdinosaur wrote:
I hear you Sloth, but does Thai have a large Thai-American population that makes up the majority of teachers there? Most of the people on this board are Korean-American and they can't help but take every slight against Korea as being a personal attack against them.
I'd LOVE to see you back this up. |
I think he probably means most of the people on this board who feel the desperate need to constantly defend Korea from complaints, are Korean-American. The number of people who freely criticise Korea on here far outweighs those who systematically defend it. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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I guess that the majority of apologists here are:
A: Non-Korean citizen of Korean descent (ie gyopo).
B: Foreigner married to a Korea citizen.
C: Foreigner with no ties to Korea, but is trying too hard to be accepted.
D: All or some of the above.
There are probably very few actual Koreans on here, because if there were they would be more honest. My wife loves her country, but she is 100 times more honest than the Dave's Apologentsia about Korea and it's inherent faults. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| viciousdinosaur wrote: |
| I hear you Sloth, but does Thai have a large Thai-American population that makes up the majority of teachers there? Most of the people on this board are Korean-American and they can't help but take every slight against Korea as being a personal attack against them. |
But when Koreans bash foreigners, foreigners don't take it as a personal slight against them? Please.
What I don't get is why people who come on here to complain, get so upset at the fact that people disagree with them. I don't get why a bunch of people who complain about Koreans complaining about them and stereotyping, turn around and do the exact same thing. Actually, I totally understand, it's human nature.
| Quote: |
| thais don't care one iota about what farang think of them or their ways. hence, they feel no need to organize a protest in reaction to it. but the korean response is to take offense and have a need to defend themselves and their dog eating as an important part of their culture. |
They do, they just aren't as reactionary about it. When the doors are closed and its just Thais, different stuff gets talked about.
| Quote: |
| but constantly defending criticisms like a fanatic is also not enlightened. it is just the opposite side the of the same coin. one side has an angry complainer who is blinded by his agenda. the other side has a fervant apologist, who thinks he is the voice of reason, but is really only a seemingly calmer voice, just as blinded by his own agenda. |
But wouldn't that make Korean apologists the same as "Waygookin Apologists" on Korean boards? After all we are the flip side of the Korean people who say "This happens in Korea too" "Here's why foreigners do the things they do, they have a good reason" "Please look at the history of the US/UK and try to understand" "Do you actually talk to foreigners?" "Do you really think that person represents all foreigners?" "How can you judge foreigners and what they're saying when you can barely speak their language and have minimal interactions with them?"
The complainers on the other hand are the flip side of the "Waygookin are scum" coin. "Waygookin do this" "Waygooking do that" "Waygookin eat disgusting food and are noisy and drunks" "Waygookin dress like goofballs" "Waygookin have bad manners" "Waygookin food is so gross" "Waygookin media makes Koreans look bad" "Waygookin all spend their time in clubs (brothels)" "Waygookin cities are dangerous and dirty" "Wayookin always look down on us" "You may be friends with waygookin but you are always an outsider" Any of this sound familiar? Possibly with the word 'Koreans' instead of 'waygookin'?
The thing is when us "apologists" are with Koreans (and because we can actually see their point of view, find common ground, not take absolute stances, speak in a respectful manner and listen to things calmly and not act like a bigot, we get to honestly share our thoughts), we are usually the "Waygookin apologists" pointing out things like facts, statistics, history, and the like to Koreans who might have negative views of foreigners.
And may I ask, how many threads have the Apologist troika started bashing NETs or foreigners? (Aside from that jerk komerican, who has been denounced by every "apologist" here) Where are they? Where are our threads calling NETs losers?
If we were so pro-Korea you'd see thread after thread cheering Korea. If we were so anti-foreigner you'd see thread after thread railing on foreigners. Where are they? Instead you get consistent objections to stereotypical, bigoted, ignorant, insulting statements made by posters towards Korean people.
So if being someone who is the flip-side of the coin that "apologizes for foreigners", does not cast stones, looks for the good in people rather than the bad, does not start negative threads, notices what makes humans similar rather than different, and defends people rather than attacks them, if that makes me an apologist, then fine. I will gladly wear that label. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| coralreefer_1 wrote: |
Just a side note and in no way an interjection into this discussion that has gone way off topic...
But I would add concerning Patrick's comments, that the folks generally coined "apologists" are generally the more grounded folks into Korean society, long term folks with a vested interest in Korea (wife/kids/jobs beyond hagwons...etc) who have been through firsthand many of the situations that get posted here. As mentioned people use the term to make all sorts of accusations, but at the end of the day, the "apologists" tend to be on average the folks most well informed about the society and the ins and outs of this or that situation
Think what one will about their/our opinions, but one would be wise to take into consideration the experiences and testimony of such people. |
Yeah, but there's a lot of people in denial. Knew a couple of guys like that who said to other waygooks: "you're being negative" and these were the ones that got screwed later on in some situation. There are also those who become apologists over time and seem to forget the xenophobia they may have experienced in the past.
I personally find people much friendlier now than before. That MBC report in the spring pissed me off, but a few years ago, there would have been one right after the other on every network. So, things have changed more recently for the better. But, I'm under no illusion. There are still racist xenophobic people out there who still hate us. They've had to learn to hide it better nowadays. Every once in a while something can and will happen. It can be competely random and nothing happens. Then, "BAM", right out of the blue, it happens. Some Koreans hating your whiteness, hating the sound of English, your walk, or the fact that you're with a Korean girl.
Don't be in denial because it might just happen to you one day, even if you've been here for years and it hasn't. Just a random roll of the dice. I know a lot of good Korean folks here and find society much more welcoming than before. But, I'm under no illusion. There are still racist rednecks out there lurking about. |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
I guess that the majority of apologists here are:
A: Non-Korean citizen of Korean descent (ie gyopo).
B: Foreigner married to a Korea citizen.
C: Foreigner with no ties to Korea, but is trying too hard to be accepted.
D: All or some of the above.
There are probably very few actual Koreans on here, because if there were they would be more honest. My wife loves her country, but she is 100 times more honest than the Dave's Apologentsia about Korea and it's inherent faults. |
The most pathetic of the bunch... |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by slothrop on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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As I mentioned, one being an "apologist" often depends on the dynamics of the environment.
I've been an apologist for white people to Asians. An apologist for blacks to whites. An apologist for whites to blacks. An apologist for Muslims to whites. An apologist for Americans to Muslims. An apologist for Koreans. A Republican apologist. A Democrat apologist.
A lot of it comes down to not giving in to anger. |
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edwardcatflap
Joined: 22 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
What I don't get is why people who come on here to complain, get so upset at the fact that people disagree with them. I don't get why a bunch of people who complain about Koreans complaining about them and stereotyping, turn around and do the exact same thing. Actually, I totally understand, it's human nature.
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Yes exactly it's human nature. People are always going to complain about certain aspects of foreign culture when they're living in a foreign country and people are always going to be resentful of foreigners behaving in strange ways while living in their country. I think most people, if they thought about it would realise that of course Koreans are going to complain amongst themselves about foreigners living here, just as we will complain abut them. You pointing out this all the time annoys people because they are not looking for lectures on how to become better, more tolerant people when they post on here, they're usually just letting off steam. They want people to agree with them, share some of their bad experiences and assure them that they are not alone in feeling this way. That makes them feel better about living here. |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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Last edited by slothrop on Sun Jan 06, 2013 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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asdfghjkl
Joined: 21 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
As I mentioned, one being an "apologist" often depends on the dynamics of the environment.
I've been an apologist for white people to Asians. An apologist for blacks to whites. An apologist for whites to blacks. An apologist for Muslims to whites. An apologist for Americans to Muslims. An apologist for Koreans. A Republican apologist. A Democrat apologist.
A lot of it comes down to not giving in to anger. |
Stop being such an apologist apologist. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| edwardcatflap wrote: |
| Quote: |
What I don't get is why people who come on here to complain, get so upset at the fact that people disagree with them. I don't get why a bunch of people who complain about Koreans complaining about them and stereotyping, turn around and do the exact same thing. Actually, I totally understand, it's human nature.
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Yes exactly it's human nature. People are always going to complain about certain aspects of foreign culture when they're living in a foreign country and people are always going to be resentful of foreigners behaving in strange ways while living in their country. I think most people, if they thought about it would realise that of course Koreans are going to complain amongst themselves about foreigners living here, just as we will complain abut them. You pointing out this all the time annoys people because they are not looking for lectures on how to become better, more tolerant people when they post on here, they're usually just letting off steam. They want people to agree with them, share some of their bad experiences and assure them that they are not alone in feeling this way. That makes them feel better about living here. |
I think there are better ways of dealing with ones frustrations than venting about entire nationalities. I mean, venting doesn't always stay venting. Chronic venting turns into something worse.
A better way may be asking questions as to why certain things that bother them occur and if there are any reasons or explanations. Sometimes there are very good reasons for why certain things are the way they are, like the lax cops here (an overresponse to the military dictatorship and police abuses). |
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Who's Your Daddy?
Joined: 30 May 2010
Location: Victoria, Canada.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually there only seem to be about 3 apologists, it's just that they comment so much. It seems they have no life. |
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