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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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 Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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Even the name Itaewon means foreign pregnancy place. It was originally for the single moms who had been raped by Japanese soldiers, so they'd have a safe place to live, but later, it wasn't a coincidence that the army base was stationed there.
Whatever the original intent, it's what Itaewon is today, just as Chinatown or K-town or Little Italy are what they are today. |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
Even the name Itaewon means foreign pregnancy place. It was originally for the single moms who had been raped by Japanese soldiers, so they'd have a safe place to live, but later, it wasn't a coincidence that the army base was stationed there.
Whatever the original intent, it's what Itaewon is today, just as Chinatown or K-town or Little Italy are what they are today. |
Citation?
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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A bunch of older Korean friends. I've heard it on different occasions. It may very well be an urban myth, but I've discussed it with several different people. Sorry that I don't have any links  |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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"The origin of the name is an issue of dispute. Two interpretations of its hanja, which give unambiguous meaning, are:
"1 Itaewon (梨泰院). This references that the area was noteworthy for having a lot of pear trees.
2 Itaewon (異胎圓). It may have been called this, referencing the Buddhist nuns who were raped by the Japanese soldiers living in the area and raised their offspring, during the Japanese Occupation."
http://wiki.galbijim.com/Itaewon |
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T-J
Joined: 10 Oct 2008
Location: Seoul EunpyungGu Yeonsinnae
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Kepler wrote: |
"The origin of the name is an issue of dispute. Two interpretations of its hanja, which give unambiguous meaning, are:
"1 Itaewon (梨泰院). This references that the area was noteworthy for having a lot of pear trees.
2 Itaewon (異胎圓). It may have been called this, referencing the Buddhist nuns who were raped by the Japanese soldiers living in the area and raised their offspring, during the Japanese Occupation."
http://wiki.galbijim.com/Itaewon |
Don't get me wrong. I've heard this story more than a few times over the last twenty odd years I've been here.
I've yet to see any actual document from the period that has the hanja supporting it.
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The Cosmic Hum
Joined: 09 May 2003
Location: Sonic Space
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| Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:27 pm Post subject: Re: Discrimination in Itaewon: no foreigners allowed |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
I disagree. Netz is making two separate points in his post.
The end is about how things changed over the years because of what Koreans and Foreigners did to change things. This does not contradict the point he made about the issues created by some US soldiers stationned in Korea. In fact, there is not contradiction at all. He also makes a salient point when he says that this is not about "YOU". That you being foreign teachers who feel everything is done agains't them and is out of pure racism. Netz's post shows its a bit more complex than that. |
No need to disagree Pat...we are looking at different points being made.
I hope you aren't always this premature. 
Netz actually makes several interesting points, but I will explain the one that caught my attention...and where I perceived a contradiction.
My point was this...at first he is telling those people who are upset about this situation...that this situation isn't about them...fair point.
One perhaps that many overlooked or perhaps ignored.
(although in the context of this thread...some posters feel offended by the perceived discriminatory actions at that bar and want it to be changed...they are doing something about this situation...regardless of who is being targeted specifically)
In fact, I don't think any one poster mentioned that this was a discriminatory action against ESL teachers...if they did, I missed it.
It came off as...hey...you don't need to care/get upset...you don't need to get your nightie in a knot because this isn't about you.
But then he says...hey...it's much better than before.
It is better because others who have gone before you cared enough to have done something to have things changed...and now it is better for you.
Perhaps a subtle point...but one worth mentioning.
While I don't personally agree with some of the comments being made in this thread, I respect their enthusiasm to want to confront/change injustice where they see it. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:27 am Post subject: |
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Interesting perspective Cosmic.
Thanks for taking the time to post it. |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:39 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
Being in one place for 20 some odd years does not automatically garner you respect. Being able to type coherently and in a standard format does help some. Notice the lack of run-on sentences here?
Not all of us are kids, toots.
As for the foreign army being in my country, if that foreign army were protecting me from a neighbor with whom I was at war, and the worst offense they committed was the occasional drunken brawl�a crime, I may add, that is just as common outside of the army�I'd be plenty grateful. |
That is a simplification NYCGal. That armed forces presence does deter the North but this does not erase the things that some members of that armed force have done over the years. It does not erase how those members that did do wrong often got away with a slap on the wrist due to the SOFA.
Don't get me wrong, this is not about all US military personnel, it is about those that do create crap and engage in behaviour that stirs anger locally. GIs are the main source of these issues, and one explanation is that they are typically quite young and that for many this is a first out of US posting.
Finally, do you honestly think that ANY country on earth will be happy to have a foreign military on its soil? Be serious for a second here. This is not the US's fault per se, it is the way it is.
By the way I can completely understand why some bars would ban US military personnel from entering. I was at a new bar in Busan early on in my stay in Korea and in rolled a group of GIs. This is one incident and is not representative of all GIs but that group started binge drinking, calling Korean women gook whores and finally trashing the place as they got in fights. Tables were smashed, mirrors, chairs, glasses broken....
I can tell you the bar owner felt pretty damn justified to bar GIs entry to his establishment which is too bad because at the end of the day, this was the result of the actions of a few soldiers. |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| It was a simplification. You're right. Still, banning all of them because of a few isn't right. Ah well... |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| It was a simplification. You're right. Still, banning all of them because of a few isn't right. Ah well... |
It is not right from YOUR perspective.
For that bar or pub or club owner's perspective it is pretty much the only manageable solution. |
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Netz
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:05 am Post subject: Re: Discrimination in Itaewon: no foreigners allowed |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| I'm not demonizing you, I'm just letting you know the format you type in is irritating and probably discourages people from reading your posts more than a few single spaced paragraphs would. |
You're complaining about the format I post with?
It's called "style", something you may not be familiar with.
I've been posting on this board for a long time, with my signature "style", as is my prerogative.
If that's the most you can muster up to complain about, then maybe you need to rethink your priorities.
You don't like my wide open spaced formatting, that clearly delineates my post on an INTERNET forum? This isn't an essay contest last I checked.
Wow.
Really?
ok
Then don't #*$&$ing read it. That's your prerogative.
Last edited by Netz on Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:07 am; edited 1 time in total |
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NYC_Gal 2.0
Joined: 10 Dec 2010
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| It was a simplification. You're right. Still, banning all of them because of a few isn't right. Ah well... |
It is not right from YOUR perspective.
For that bar or pub or club owner's perspective it is pretty much the only manageable solution. |
It's a slippery slope from there... |
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Netz
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| It was a simplification. You're right. Still, banning all of them because of a few isn't right. Ah well... |
It is not right from YOUR perspective.
For that bar or pub or club owner's perspective it is pretty much the only manageable solution. |
It's a slippery slope from there... |
Oh well, just let them do it your way, decrease their profits, increase their headaches, and eventually close the doors on the establishment.
That's a great solution.
All in the name of some Westernized perspective of "spreading equality".
I wonder sometimes why certain people even continue to live here, since they apparently have so many grievances with the culture.
Go figure. |
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Netz
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Location: a parallel universe where people and places seem to be the exact opposite of "normal"
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| dairyairy wrote: |
| Netz, last anyone checked there's still a war going on between the two Koreas and the one up north enslaves its own people and has nukes. The U.S. military is here DEFENDING South Korea. |
Read this, and get back to me.
http://www.g2mil.com/daegu.htm |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 4:43 am Post subject: |
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| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
| NYC_Gal 2.0 wrote: |
| It was a simplification. You're right. Still, banning all of them because of a few isn't right. Ah well... |
It is not right from YOUR perspective.
For that bar or pub or club owner's perspective it is pretty much the only manageable solution. |
It's a slippery slope from there... |
It can be yes but again, unless you have been in that bar owner's shoes, you do not know now do you?
Let me take you back to that Busan bar...
Who paid for the heavy damages to the bar? The owner.
Did the GIs get any sort of punishment? Not really.
Whose business was hurt as clients avoided the place for a while?
It may be slippery but sometimes it is the sane choice for a business owner. |
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