|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
lemak
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:10 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| pick the fact I said almost 15 years, and nitpick about something irrelevant |
So, a double standard is ok. You are the one nitpicking something 15 years ago, but I am crazy for worrying about an exchange rate today? You are funny. What else you got to entertain us with today? Starting off my day nicely, thanks for this comment.
| Quote: |
| P.S - I am in China, not Korea for what it's worth, and similar to the rest of your post equally irrelevant as I'm not exchanging my pay to hard currency, rather using it on expenses here. |
The original post if you forgot was talking also about the reasons for getting paid weekly. You haven't addressed that. Let me help you out.
"With all the stories of Hagwons going broke and the few stories of Hagwons deliberately scamming employees"
How does one "use it on expenses here" if one does not get the money to pay for expenses? What is your financial advice since you don't want to save up money or exchange it? I am interested in this method of yours.
"There would be problems as hagwons may get all their cash in at one time of the month"
If 15 years ago (or nitpick if you want and change it to 13) was the crucial time, then what was the salary back then? Here, I'll give a dog a bone. Don't consider the exchange rate. We don't need to use USD or pounds right? Just tell me the Korean won. Or is RMB easier to think of? (Dang, double standard again, and in the same post  ) |
Work on your reading comprehension, mate.
Where in any of my posts here have I said either being paid weekly or monthly has a benefit over the other?
Right - Not once.
You're starting an argument with me over something I never said, and actually agree with...but am smart enough to know isn't a reality based on both the reasons already pointed out by others, and the fact that historically foreigners are no closer to half this junk they've been coming online and whining like little girls about for years. Teacher's Union anyone? haha.
Why so desperate for online disagreements anyway? Feeling insecure?
I would have vastly preferred getting paid weekly or every two weeks, but as I said in my first post there's been many a call going back many years for this, and nothing has changed. Likely nothing will.
I did however already offer you a solution if you want to be paid more regularly....erm....talk to your boss, lol....you know...the one that pays you, rather than coming online and crying.
Oh and by the way everyone knows exchange rates affect salaries, but thanks for the great revelation, lol.
And I'll keep my personal financial situation (both now and 15 years ago) exactly that....personal since my pay or choice of how I spend my money these days bears absolutely zero relevance to the topic. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Where in any of my posts here have I said either being paid weekly or monthly has a benefit over the other? |
It was mentioned in the original post. I never said you stated it. I was suggesting you comment on it. Try again.
| Quote: |
| Why so desperate for online disagreements anyway? Feeling insecure? |
Again, I asked for you to comment on the notion we should get paid weekly. I am not looking for a fight. Please try reading again with a different attitude. You might get further with me. Sorry, I am not a fighter.
| Quote: |
| Oh and by the way everyone knows exchange rates affect salaries, but thanks for the great revelation, lol. |
No, the point you missed was exchange rates affect people's decision to work in a certain location. If you have worked in China, you know the salary is usually much lower than other countries. So, people often don't consider coming here. That was the point, it had nothing to do with salaries or even negotiating.
| Quote: |
| And I'll keep my personal financial situation (both now and 15 years ago) exactly that....personal since my pay or choice of how I spend my money these days bears absolutely zero relevance to the topic. |
That's interesting. You are the only person who worked 15 years ago? Really, it's that personal?
Anyway, you did state the following:
"What I'm saying is that people have been calling for changes to the frequency of pay as long as these boards have been around, both online and offline - and it hasn't changed yet"
Amnesia setting in? I was asking about an average, I wasn't asking your specific income figures. Interesting how you read this stuff. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My original point was that people are providing credit to their employer without knowing their financial position.
I am an F-visa holder and in the highly unlikely event I was to work in a hagwon again it would only be on the basis that I was paid weekly.
I know the hagwons would resist paying weekly as they look at borrowing from teachers as an acceptable cash management strategy. When the native teacher isn't being paid the hagwon is finished as that means the taxes and social insurances haven't been paid and neither have the Korean staff.
I am extremely lucky that I have a BATNA when talking about working in a hagwon and that is not to work in a hagwon. I realise that not everyone is as lucky as me, but if people start asking for these things that's how changes will happen.
I don't think a teachers union is the answer, as many people have pointed out these things change by individuals negotiating with individuals.
Good luck everyone and peace. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
Not to rain on your parade, I agree it would be a good thing for teachers if
at all possible. The thing is with the market flooded with newbies as it is
it's far easier for haggies just to change teachers. If a teacher starts
making demands, there's another sucker standing in line for that job.
The only way I can foresee things improving is if masses of newbies stop
choosing Korea. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lemak
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:51 am Post subject: |
|
|
My God you're a bore, YMTND.
| YTMND wrote: |
| Again, I asked for you to comment on the notion we should get paid weekly. |
Why? I don't overly care either way. Obviously everyone would prefer to be paid more regularly. Hell I'd prefer to have my pay go into my account every day if I could, but that's not practical, isn't the way it's done generally in the country, and I signed a contract accepting monthly pay. If I were so upset by the idea, as I said a few times already talk to your boss and see what they are willing to arrange.
| Quote: |
| You might get further with me. |
Yeah my entire reason for existence is for your acceptance. [eyeroll] I couldn't care less what you think. It offers nothing in the grand scheme of my life. Sorry.
| Quote: |
| That's interesting. You are the only person who worked 15 years ago? Really, it's that personal? |
If you can show me exactly how my specific pay in the 90s is relevant to me saying people have been arguing in favor of weekly pay for a long time, then by all means. But you can't can ya? Too busy playing with semantics and irrelevances. Want to know my favorite color too? LOL. It's about as relevant.
Anyway, you did state the following:
| Quote: |
| Interesting how you read this stuff. |
Ditto. Not sure why you keep replying to me. maybe I'm misreading what you're writing, as obviously you have been from me, but all I seem to be seeing is unrelated babble and attempting to attribute me saying thing sI never said...or ironically even really care about.
I guess the last word is important to you, so go for it, baby!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
EZE
Joined: 05 May 2012
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 7:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CPJ wrote: |
| If someone is going to pull a runner, they are going to pull a runner. However, this makes it way more likely for teachers to run as the hagwons would have less of their money. A normal runner loses 10+ days of pay. If teachers were paid weekly, the most they would lose is 5 days of pay. |
I'm a teacher with a history of completing a contract at one school and pulling a midnight runner at another.
A co-worker and I pulled midnight runners in April, seven and eight months into our contracts at Anyang Wonderland. It was getting to the point where it looked like there was very much a possibility of working a full month and receiving no pay. If the risk would have been to only lose one week of pay, I would've probably continued working there despite it surely being the worst Wonderland of all Wonderlands. But who wants to work five weeks (one month, plus Wonderland's usual late pay period) and risk not receiving anything? Not my co-worker who pulled a runner, and not me either. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Why? I don't overly care either way. |
Why post here then? I don't care about golf. I am not posting on golf forums.
| Quote: |
| Want to know my favorite color too? |
An average can be a number that represents a group, not just one person. I was not specifically asking about your salary. I was asking for the average. Hopefully, you can understand this.
But if you truly don't care, then stop posting. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
big_fella1
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| some waygug-in wrote: |
Not to rain on your parade, I agree it would be a good thing for teachers if
at all possible. The thing is with the market flooded with newbies as it is
it's far easier for haggies just to change teachers. |
No problem, I don't consider my parade rained on. I haven't worked for a hagwon in 3 years, and I'm getting by.
People talk about this flood of newbies however I wonder it is a myth being pushed by the hagwon associations. I'm not sure if hagwons still prepay airfares but if they don't, it would be a very brave person who paid their own airfare to take a hagwon job.
F-visa holders can be employed when a school is in trouble and can't afford to hire a newbie, therefore F-visas should be demanding weekly pay now.
I started this thread not to stir, but I had just read a story about a guy whose boss hadn't paid him for some time. I hate that.
We work for money, if we wanted to take risk we would start a business ourselves and if we didn't need money, we would teach kids who couldn't afford hagwons. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
YTMND
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Location: You're the man now dog!!
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 6:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| F-visa holders can be employed when a school is in trouble and can't afford to hire a newbie, therefore F-visas should be demanding weekly pay now. |
You left that part out in the original post. I was going on the premise an E2 visa holder, or an employee who works monthly with a signed contract to be paid monthly might want to be paid weekly.
I was on an E2 visa and I got paid monthly, reflecting the contract agreements. Whenever asked, I refused to fill out my work hours for that week. I simply wrote "received" and handed them back whatever form they gave me.
Hagwons would love to make you work one week a lot, and then loosen up on the hours the following week to level out the hours. Then they can argue they don't owe you overtime. What they do is make teacher 2 work more hours when you aren't. They pull the same game on them and don't pay either of you the agreed total.
It also isn't fair to them if you worked one week, got paid overtime, but the following week didn't work your weekly hours. You can't have your cake and eat it to in this case. So, if you are the typical E2 visa holder or teach with a similar agreement, I think it is best to keep it monthly.
If you are on an F visa, can't you sign a contract which states you will be paid weekly? I would think the scope of this discussion changes significantly when you have a teacher you don't have to pay airfare and find housing for. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lemak
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| YTMND wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Why? I don't overly care either way. |
Why post here then? I don't care about golf. I am not posting on golf forums.
| Quote: |
| Want to know my favorite color too? |
An average can be a number that represents a group, not just one person. I was not specifically asking about your salary. I was asking for the average. Hopefully, you can understand this.
But if you truly don't care, then stop posting. |
I give ya the last word and this is the best you can muster, handsome?
Alright I'll really, really let you get in the final jab this time. Promise! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: |
|
|
| big_fella1 wrote: |
| some waygug-in wrote: |
Not to rain on your parade, I agree it would be a good thing for teachers if
at all possible. The thing is with the market flooded with newbies as it is
it's far easier for haggies just to change teachers. |
No problem, I don't consider my parade rained on. I haven't worked for a hagwon in 3 years, and I'm getting by.
People talk about this flood of newbies however I wonder it is a myth being pushed by the hagwon associations. I'm not sure if hagwons still prepay airfares but if they don't, it would be a very brave person who paid their own airfare to take a hagwon job.
F-visa holders can be employed when a school is in trouble and can't afford to hire a newbie, therefore F-visas should be demanding weekly pay now.
I started this thread not to stir, but I had just read a story about a guy whose boss hadn't paid him for some time. I hate that.
We work for money, if we wanted to take risk we would start a business ourselves and if we didn't need money, we would teach kids who couldn't afford hagwons. |
Agreed. I hate reading some of the stories posted here as well. But there seem to be more and more of them, not just on this forum.
Check out the tokyo john site, there's some pretty sad tales on there
this year. Things seem to be getting worse.
F visa holders can negotiate and get better working conditions, but by and large E-2 visa holders have their hands tied. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
|
| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
Flooded market = employers market.
This has some consequences as employers can be more picky and know that should they fire someone, there are 10 more people ready to take the job. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
