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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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 Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:25 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
the fact this seems logical to some people defies understanding...good lord... |
What's not logical about it? To clarify, I don't actually think public schools should exist, but given that so many people are up in arms over these shootings, the next best thing to do (besides abolishing the public school system) is to put armed guards in schools or arm the teachers. It's unlikely to be 100% effective, but it's the only way to deter future shootings (although the media could do its part and stop advertising schools as the best, safest place for would-be mass killers to go).
It does seem rather silly, considering that shootings are actually very rare in relative terms, but if one wants to propose solutions... Increased gun control will have ZERO effect on shootings, that much is obvious. |
Which is one of the many reasons that I don't really understand why anyone bothers with you at all. Most of us live in one world, you live in a different one. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| PatrickGHBusan wrote: |
the fact this seems logical to some people defies understanding...good lord... |
What's not logical about it? To clarify, I don't actually think public schools should exist, but given that so many people are up in arms over these shootings, the next best thing to do (besides abolishing the public school system) is to put armed guards in schools or arm the teachers. It's unlikely to be 100% effective, but it's the only way to deter future shootings (although the media could do its part and stop advertising schools as the best, safest place for would-be mass killers to go).
It does seem rather silly, considering that shootings are actually very rare in relative terms, but if one wants to propose solutions... Increased gun control will have ZERO effect on shootings, that much is obvious. |
Which is one of the many reasons why I don't really understand why people bother with you. Most of us live in one world. You live in a different one. |
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ghostrider
Joined: 27 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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Mayors Against Illegal Guns has joined together with over 50 celebrities and are demanding the following:
1. Require a criminal background check for every gun sold in America
2. Ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines
3. Make gun trafficking a federal crime, including real penalties for �straw purchasers�
http://www.demandaplan.org/
I think the US should have some kind of national permit system like Canada does. When people apply for a driver's license they could have the option of having the DMV do a background check on them. Those with a clean record could have it stated on their license that they qualify to purchase a firearm. IDs would have to be checked before any gun is purchased. That would close the gun show loophole. |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, if 50 celebrities are for it, you know it is a good idea. Perhaps some sort of text-to-vote element can be included in this reform petition as well? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
How about this:
Men, who are age 25 and older, who are married and own property, who have never been bankrupt and never had trouble with the law, may own guns.
Serious question. |
How about this: as the above (less perhaps property ownership; the "own a house" obsession is strong enough in America without throwing fuel on the fire), except firearm ownership and militia participation becomes mandatory for said heads of household, and we disband our standing army, relying on the national militia coupled with nuclear deterrence to defend the nation. Gun ownership becomes restricted to those with a natural sense of responsibility, military adventurism ends, hundreds of billions of dollars of government money are freed up for better use, the nation is defended, and the Second Amendment is actually operating as originally intended. Systematic victory on all counts as I see it.
Last edited by Fox on Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:32 am; edited 1 time in total |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:20 am Post subject: |
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| northway wrote: |
| Which is one of the many reasons that I don't really understand why anyone bothers with you at all. Most of us live in one world, you live in a different one. |
As if anyone gives a crap what you think. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:23 am Post subject: |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
Mayors Against Illegal Guns has joined together with over 50 celebrities and are demanding the following:
1. Require a criminal background check for every gun sold in America
2. Ban assault weapons and high-capacity magazines
3. Make gun trafficking a federal crime, including real penalties for �straw purchasers�
http://www.demandaplan.org/
I think the US should have some kind of national permit system like Canada does. When people apply for a driver's license they could have the option of having the DMV do a background check on them. Those with a clean record could have it stated on their license that they qualify to purchase a firearm. IDs would have to be checked before any gun is purchased. That would close the gun show loophole. |
Look at ghostrider shamelessly trying to hawk off his propaganda. Isn't there some sort of restriction on Dave's against this sort of shameless activity? At least you should be paying a fee or something for the privilege... |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 1:27 am Post subject: |
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| ghostrider wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
If you think I'm going to download your pdf to find whatever propaganda drivel you're pushing this time, you are mistaken. Feel free to quote the relevant part yourself. |
Your intellectual laziness is noted. I already did provide the relevant quotes in the other thread. |
Not being bothered to sort through your garbage does not = laziness.
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| A militia does not spontaneously keep and maintain itself. Someone has to do it. Read Article 1 of the Constitution to find out who is in charge of the militia. |
Meaningless.
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| The Founding Fathers would be horrified to read some of your posts. They never intended the Second Amendment to be an obstacle to safety and sensible gun regulation. The parts of the Constitution that deal with commerce, taxation, and the militia grant the Federal Government authority over guns. The states have a right to pass gun control legislation as part of their police powers which are constitutionally protected by the Tenth Amendment. |
You're so full of it, it's coming out your ears. If any of the founding fathers heard you trying to pawn off your unconstitutional trash on the public, they'd probably challenge you to a duel (and win). |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| northway wrote: |
| Which is one of the many reasons that I don't really understand why anyone bothers with you at all. Most of us live in one world, you live in a different one. |
As if anyone gives a crap what you think. |
There's some spittle on your chin, do you need a hanky? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| This is not an original idea, but I do think it would be a good idea to 'award' the surviving members of a family of victims killed in these mass killings with a medal for their sacrifice in defense of Second Amendment "rights". |
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comm
Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:17 am Post subject: |
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I'm still not sure how this incident has incited so much anger against "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines". Neither of these (however you're defining them) were used in the attack, and the pistols that were used were legally registered to a law-abiding citizen. Nothing that's been proposed would have so much as slowed the killer in Connecticut.
I think you authoritarian types are just taking advantage of the situation to push your anti-freedom agenda. Shouldn't we be talking about things that would have stopped this attack? More freely available, non-stigmatizing mental health programs maybe? Can we get all worked up about that instead of arguing about regulations that wouldn't have changed the outcome of the event anyway? |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:49 am Post subject: |
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| comm wrote: |
I'm still not sure how this incident has incited so much anger against "assault weapons" and "high capacity magazines". Neither of these (however you're defining them) were used in the attack, and the pistols that were used were legally registered to a law-abiding citizen. Nothing that's been proposed would have so much as slowed the killer in Connecticut.
I think you authoritarian types are just taking advantage of the situation to push your anti-freedom agenda. Shouldn't we be talking about things that would have stopped this attack? More freely available, non-stigmatizing mental health programs maybe? Can we get all worked up about that instead of arguing about regulations that wouldn't have changed the outcome of the event anyway? |
Cute, but you authoritarian right-wingers don't get to just project without being called on it.
From the sounds of it, your 'law-abiding citizen' who legally registered her guns was not only a gun nut who was not protected by her private armory, she taught her son how to shoot straight--right at her.
When gun nuts make the laws, only nuts have guns.
Personally, I'm most impressed with the two right-winger women pundits advising unarmed 'husky 12-year olds' to pile on armed killers. What could possibly go wrong with that?
There is a rumor that there was a time when conservatives weren't all bat crap crazy. I don't personally remember such a time and I remember when Ike was prez. I think it is just a self-serving rumor. |
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Spartacist
Joined: 18 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
| Causation is the only thing that is relevant. Otherwise I could say that we should have less firemen fighting fires (since more firemen correlates with larger fires) and you would have to take me seriously... |
Only if you had shown some sort of correlation or association between more firemen and larger fires would it even be possible to assert this, which you haven't. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Spartacist wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
| Causation is the only thing that is relevant. Otherwise I could say that we should have less firemen fighting fires (since more firemen correlates with larger fires) and you would have to take me seriously... |
Only if you had shown some sort of correlation or association between more firemen and larger fires would it even be possible to assert this, which you haven't. |
Oh man.... it was just an example  If I had shown the correlation (suspend your disbelief for a second), would it have have made you think differently about whether or not we should have more firefighters?? Please take a moment to think about it before answering (to avoid giving an embarrassing answer)... |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Cute, but you authoritarian right-wingers don't get to just project without being called on it. |
Not projecting at all. You really are hardcore authoritarian, desperately trying to impose your collectivist worldview onto everyone (that is, when you're not saying that liberals should secede from the union  ). I surely don't see any libertarians trying to force their will onto others likewise.
| Quote: |
| From the sounds of it, your 'law-abiding citizen' who legally registered her guns was not only a gun nut who was not protected by her private armory, she taught her son how to shoot straight--right at her. |
This has nothing to do with the rest of us. Sorry yata, but your collectivist Borg mentality is going to have to wait for a few hundred more years. For now we're all still individuals (I know you find that painful, but that's just the way it is) and not responsible for what others do.
| Quote: |
| When gun nuts make the laws, only nuts have guns. |
I thought that "liberals have guns too". I know for a fact that all your heroes down in Washington have armed body guards escorting them around in bullet-proof limousines. Obama has the entire secret service at his personal disposal to protect himself and his family. I suppose they're all just a bunch of paranoid gun nuts too? |
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