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| Would you take a pay cut to remain employed in Korea |
| Yes |
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14% |
[ 8 ] |
| No |
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31% |
[ 17 ] |
| It depends |
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27% |
[ 15 ] |
| I don't know |
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3% |
[ 2 ] |
| No way in heck!!! |
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14% |
[ 8 ] |
| I would work for free |
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7% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 54 |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:42 am Post subject: |
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I did take a pay cut the last year I was there. I had to agree to work
for the same wage as a newbie or no job.
I can't believe public schools have no money, they've got all kinds of money for expensive computer rooms that don't get used and a lot of other stuff.
It's just another example of Korean's attitudes towards foreign teachers. |
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slothrop
Joined: 03 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:03 am Post subject: |
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edit
Last edited by slothrop on Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Konglishman
Joined: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Nanjing
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
Okay, besides "kinship," how many people think this comment makes any sense?
| kinship wrote: |
What you do not get is that those options do not need to be mentioned. They are simply common knowledge and obvious options for anyone wanting to teach outside of the western countries.
Those options are NOT the point of the question and some things do not need to be mentioned when one constructs a simple yes or no answer. If someone says no then the rest of us knows their alternatives--return to their homeland or seek English teaching opportunities elsewhere.
I am not interested in the options but if people would be willing to sacrifice a few bucks to keep teaching in this country. In other words, you are over-thinking the question. |
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That's right. We should only say yes or no and should never discuss underlying reasons on a discussion board. 
And if something doesn't fit into Thiessen's narrative, then it must be irrelevant.  |
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Dodge7
Joined: 21 Oct 2011
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| kinship wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Korea is a G20 "developed" nation so there is no reason to take a cut so someone else can line their pocket or make further profit at my expense. |
This is a bad reason based upon a faulty assumption and way to general. Just because Korea is a G20 country doesn't mean that hagwon owners have tons of students attending their institution nor does it mean that schools get great bedgets to offer a higher wage.
| Quote: |
| Korea is not the be all, end all for work outside of our home countries |
Not even germane to the question at hand and you are way to bitter about Korea. |
Statements taken out of context.
You should try applying for a job at FOX or CNN. You'd fit right in.
| kinship wrote: |
| Quote: |
| His (valid) point is that there are many places with equally or more interesting culture, with equally or more in-need students, with equal or better treatment of / conditions for foreigners than Korea. And for many teachers (perhaps the majority) the reason to teach here rather than those other places is the competitive salary. |
Still not germane to the issue as the question is quite narrow and only addresses the issue if you would or wouldn't accept a reasonable pay cut. I really do not care about the conditions in other countries, as that may only be a small influential factor in one's decision. |
Actually, they are quite germane to the issue since the question was, "Would you take a pay cut to remain employed in Korea"
Would I take a pay cut to remain employed if the only other option was unemployment then yes.
Would I take a pay cut to remain in Korea?
No.
There are too many other viable options out there that are equal or superior to the "Korean Experience" and unlike some, I am not tied here by family, heritage or the apron strings.
Even within Korea there are lots of viable options (for anyone with the wherewithal that Ghod gave to green apples) so there is no need to take a pay cut simply for the "privilege of staying here.
. |
Is there a reason you left out MSNBC? The biggest hack of a news station full of deceitful and slimy, spineless commentators that could be found in the US? |
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PatrickGHBusan
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Location: Busan (1997-2008) Canada 2008 -
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Take a pay cut?
If it is a trade off, perhaps.
However, as ttom said, there are other options out there than Korea.
Still, the decision would be very dependant on each person's situation. If a person has family ties to Korea and obligations there, they may very well consider a pay cut as acceptable. On the other hand, someone with no ties to Korea would likely flat out refuse the pay cut.
Hence, the only real answer to this poll is "it depends". |
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kinship
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| slothrop wrote: |
| does anyone get the feeling that the OP is a feeler being put out there to gauge the viability of actually cutting salaries? |
No, it is just a question from curiosity |
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kinship
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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I can't believe public schools have no money, they've got all kinds of money for expensive computer rooms that don't get used and a lot of other stuff.
It's just another example of Korean's attitudes towards foreign teachers. |
Maybe so but it also means that they have different priorities to look after as well. Should the students receive and use inferior equipment while learning how to use computers or learn how to cook?
There is only so much money to go around and many schools and departments all are asking for their slice of the pie. |
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kinship
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| aq8knyus wrote: |
If it wasn't too drastic a cut and I got commensurate benefits in return such as a reduction to working hours then I would accept a pay cut.
Why is this question being asked? OP are you trying to insinuate people are only here for the money? |
No. I was just curious as to the attitude of westerners about this possibility. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Hagwon supply has well outstripped demand. Your question is essentially asking whether one would tether oneself to a sinking ship. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Supply and demand affects everything. Before the recession flooded Korea, the demand for teachers was high and the supply was low. So, wages and benefits kept going up. Now, things have gotten worse but also stabilized. Wages are flatter. But the longer this goes on or if another worse downturn happens, count on wages going down. I think they haven't because the public school came onto the scene and stabilized things. If 100 % of those jobs disappeared, wages would probably go down. If people had the option of leaving, they would. If they don't, they won't. But, I could bet if jobs fell to 1.5 Million or less, there would be a mass exodus. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
I did take a pay cut the last year I was there. I had to agree to work
for the same wage as a newbie or no job.
I can't believe public schools have no money, they've got all kinds of money for expensive computer rooms that don't get used and a lot of other stuff.
It's just another example of Korean's attitudes towards foreign teachers. |
As I said, the economy and many people wanting to work in Seoul or Gyeonggi. But, EPIK elsewhere has not cut wages. Let's hope it doesn't come. But the longer this malaise continues, there may be downward pressure. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Weigookin74 wrote: |
| Supply and demand affects everything. Before the recession flooded Korea, the demand for teachers was high and the supply was low. So, wages and benefits kept going up. Now, things have gotten worse but also stabilized. Wages are flatter. But the longer this goes on or if another worse downturn happens, count on wages going down. I think they haven't because the public school came onto the scene and stabilized things. If 100 % of those jobs disappeared, wages would probably go down. If people had the option of leaving, they would. If they don't, they won't. But, I could bet if jobs fell to 1.5 Million or less, there would be a mass exodus. |
Sort of like the exodus in '97/98 during and just after the "IMF" crisis.
EFL is a growth industry (globally).
Just as Japan was in its ascendency in the early 90s it fell then stabilized in the early part of the 2000's. 2002 = Korea was the new "Wild East" and rising.
Move forward 10 years and history is repeating itself. Korea is falling as an EFL market for any number of reasons.
China and the ASEAN block are rising. 10 years ago an EFL job for someone with a degree was paying 3000 rmb. Now those same jobs are 8-15k RMB + benefits (depending on the local market and demographics).
As I said much earlier in the post.
The answer is a definite maybe and in my personal case a definite no.
-IF someone had no choice but to stay then taking a cut is preferable to long term unemployment. (yes)
-If someone had the ability to get re-employed quickly then a pay cut is probably not a preferable option (start looking for a new job and change at their convenience). (no)
-If people have the option to leave Korea (no real ties to the country other than perhaps a long stay) and then taking a pay cut may be preferable to upending their roots and moving along (people don't really like change after they get settled). (maybe)
-For a newcomer to Korea and getting hit with a pay cut - pull up and move on. Plane tickets are cheap and there are LOTS of viable options in East and SE Asia with comparable benefts and equal savings potential. No hagwon is worth the headache.
To close, to those with TIES to Korea taking a pay cut might be an acceptable option.
To those with no ties, Korea never was the best choice in terms of culture, quality of life, of lifestyle. Its ONLY real draw was the money and benefits. When those are gone there is no reason to stay or even to come.
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kinship
Joined: 24 Jan 2013
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| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
IF someone had no choice but to stay then taking a cut is preferable to long term unemployment. (yes)
-If someone had the ability to get re-employed quickly then a pay cut is probably not a preferable option (start looking for a new job and change at their convenience). (no)
-If people have the option to leave Korea (no real ties to the country other than perhaps a long stay) and then taking a pay cut may be preferable to upending their roots and moving along (people don't really like change after they get settled). (maybe)
-For a newcomer to Korea and getting hit with a pay cut - pull up and move on. Plane tickets are cheap and there are LOTS of viable options in East and SE Asia with comparable benefts and equal savings potential. No hagwon is worth the headache. |
Again, you are over-thinking the question. All it says is 'would YOU...' in other words it only requires a personal answer |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:33 am Post subject: |
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No, I wouldn't and no I didn't. A former employer tried this but I left for a job with better pay and conditions. Within a couple of years the former employer's company folded.
Know what you are worth. If you are qualified then demand a decent wage. Korea isn't the be all and end all of English teaching. |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:06 am Post subject: |
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no. one of the big schools, the "P" one, tried it on many way back when, including myself. it actually wasn't a real pay-cut per se, but was more of a managerial power struggle and cutting of normal/std benefits, that many, including myself, and other head teachers, weren't into cow-towing to, so we bade our sayonaras. their loss.
in reference to ttompatz' post about those with ties here, most would not take a pay cut, from what/whom i know. most would just go out and do it on their(wife's/husband's help) own. screw the bosses if they're trying to make u work for a mere pittance. |
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