Korean Job Discussion Forums

[rollo]

Better in many ways. The screenings of diplomas and the criminal background check have made the quality of teachers much better. there are less drunks, druggies and nutters. Also less interesting people perhaps. I worked with some people who were basically outcast from Western society either fullblown alkies, or running from the law, of course i also worked with decent hard working educated people who tried to do a good job everyday. But enough of the fullbore loons to make you wary of associating with WEsterner's.

Worse in the the nationalism is more pronounced it seems. It was more "freewheeling" in the 90's No one really seemed to care about working on the side. My boss hooked me up with outside gigs quite often. it has become very Americanized. Sterile in a sense.

In 1990 it was difficult to get many things, I mean just simple things we were used to. Could not find any clothes that fit and of course no deodorant. Spam was a delicacy and any fancy dinner you went to it would be served. No pizza and no American chain restaraunts. Maybe there was in Seoul but not in Daegu. No Homeplus or e-mart. I can remember the only wine i could find in Daegu was some boones farm . the propritor of the shop was so very proud of those bottles of Boone's Farm. Nothing worse than a strawberry Boone's hangover.

[BroodingSea]

Having spent a bit of time in Japan working at universities there I was struck at how sanitized and bleached large parts of Tokyo felt � a �controlled� feel. What I loved about Korea in the late 90�s was that feel the place gave me. The late night soju tents by the river in Daejon, small under lit bars and coffee shops staffed by women until late, and great places to eat at a fabulous price. There were places to be discovered. I recall one night we had been out on a Thursday for food and beers and we stumbled across a bar called 39 degrees that had only just opened and had no western clientele. How it had any clientele at all amazed me, as it was located at the top of a building on the edge of town. Word got round anyway, and it became one of the best places to spend a Friday night, busy with Koreans and foreigners. I got to know the barman well and the women that worked there.

I used to love going for a walk at night and grabbing a Hite and some ramen at a 7/11 and walk into adjacent high-rises that were larger than the one I stayed in � taking the stairs or the lift to the very top and to take in the panorama. Rice fields and super highways. I remember going back to Incheon in 2006 and I just got a sense of super-security: ID cameras, over zealous security cards, gated entry � all I wanted to see was the city at night! I used to love the seedy feel to the PC bangs and the video shops � the sprinkling of neon colour at all hours and people going from place to place. You had to be on your toes with employers and stories of deceit were rife � but they added to the experience � they truly did.

In 2006 I felt changes in the workplace as well as everything else. In comparison, looking back, it felt more like Japan. Gone were the days of a slightly chaotic, underbelly feel to the districts, dark and drab Korean bars and coffee shops were replaced by garish over-stylized places staffed by metropolitan eyebrow plucking males and females with popstar Korean princess aspirations. The underbelly had gone.

[BroodingSea]

[PatrickGHBusan]

I will say that Korea is now overal better for foreigners but probably less interesting at the same time.

Better because teachers are far better screened now and hence (as rollo said) there are fewer crazies, creeps and freaks teaching there. In the 1990s the frak factor was far higher.

Better because foreigners have access to FAR more resources now in terms of goods, services, protection of their rights and so on.

Less interesting because everything is available everywhere and there is far less to discover. Back then, travel inside Korea was a lot more about discovering places and taking chances at what you would find (sometimes that was good, sometimes that was bad!). These days, information (tons of it) is readily available online (instantaneously) about nearly every spot. To me that takes some of the fun out of travel even if I have to admit it is more convenient.


So the 1990s was not better than now, it as just different. I think foreigners back then were a lot more resourceful (had to be) but had far less support available.

[Cartman]

[The King of Kwangju]

Having left Korea in 2000, so many of these stories ring true to me.

In fact I find it hard to believe that the seediness is totally gone? Surely that's not true?

When I was in Korea in the 90s many of the foreigners used to remark on how you never knew what was going to happen when you stepped outside for the day. Wild West, for sure.

It also amazes me that with all those useless liberal arts degrees in the country, no one ever came up with a good novel/screenplay of the expat experience in the 90s. I still have mine, half-finished, somewhere at home.

[rollo]

Baskin Robbins?? English on menus??? viral??? There was barely any English at Gimpo, and that was the main airport at the time. In fact I found one person at Gimpo who understood any English and that was limited.

Once you left Seoul, you were on your own. What maps???

I remember a Korean joint loosely based on McDonalds and as soon I walked in caught a glimpse of people scurrying into the back so when i got to the counter , no one was there. So i stood there yelling hello. finally heard some giggling and a red faced teenaged Korean girl came out stared at the floor, i pointed at the pictures of food. i heard more giggling from the back. The girls who worked there were too shy to come out and had pushed this poor child out to take care of the barbarian. i remember it took about 45 minutes to get a horrible resemblance of a hamburger but it was charming just the same. Occasionally a head around the corner as one of the girls peeked out at the strange
creature who had appeared in their business
The only resource you had were the korean teachers at your hagwon who spoke English, often quite badly but they could help you with shopping and such.
So if old timers are sometimes a little rough on newbies who complain about their cell phone plan or that service was a little 'off" at the Taco Bell, try to understand.

[creeper1]

[rollo]

Yeah Creeper. it is strange that there has been only that one book that I know of.

There have been several books about the ESl experience in China and at least one film by a Canadian who taught there in the early ninties.

Some one needs to step up to the plate.

Now there was a poster on DAves BLUE LAKE I think who came to Korea in the early 80's, I would love to read some of his experiences.

[T-J]

[T-J]

The question was asked, was it better back then? It was certainly different. I came in 91, Roh was still president, the euphoria of the Olympics still hung in the air, and the sense of realizing the fruits of decades of work in terms of political reform and economic advancement was palpable. The memories of the struggle to get to that point were also fresher. The June Democracy Movement was only four years past and student demonstrations were still a regular summer occurance. Tear gas filling the streets around Yeonsei was an expected inconvenience, you soon learned never to leave home without a handkerchief.

It was an exciting and fun time for me at that age. Itaewon, while seedy at the time, had more of a Mardi Gras type feel to it. There was prostitution on the hill, but the bars were bars. There were working girls in them but that was an aside that could be ignored by those that chose to. I can remember the hill being packed with expats, both women and men, you could hardly walk up the hill it was so packed with people. That was before the hotel went up on the right side and there was an open deli/supermarket on the left. The hotel went up about '93 and that I think was the beginning of the end for itaewon.

Hongdae was off the military radar. They had never heard of it let alone frequent it. All the expats that I knew spoke much better Korean than the expats I find today. You had to. There was no Internet. Most had a pager (삐삐) but cell phones were still a few years away. Got my Motorolla StarTac in '96 I think it was. Ska and HoogiePoogie were the two bars we frequented most. Not sure if the latter is still there. Ska has certainly changed. It used to have long tables with ice bathes sitting in the middle filled with beers. I still have no idea how the staff managed to keep an accurate tally of what was being drunk.

It was cheaper. Local smokes were ₩800, 1,000 for foreign brands. Subway cost ₩350 or 400. Only four lines and those were shorter. All transactions were cash. I can remember getting my weekly white envelope stuffed with man won notes.

I suspect my nostolgia for that age in my life influences my view of Korea at that time. However I can't help but feel it was better back then for a person stepping out into the expat life for the first time. For me now, married with a son, I think the changes that have taken place over the last 22 years have made it a better place for me at this point in my life.

Would love to bump into some of those guys from back then. Have lost track as tends to happen...

[The King of Kwangju]

Man, the excerpt from that guy's book is bloody awful.

Makes me want to dig up mine. It might also be awful. I haven't read it in years. As I remember it was written on Hangul '98 so it might be an effort to even get it off the disk.

There was a short-lived reality show called "The English Teachers" about hogwan teachers in Taipei that really nailed it. But no one watched and it flopped.

I recently visited Korea for the first time since 2000. It's certainly an easier place for expats now, which is probably for the better. Back in the day the common topic of discussion was how much longer we could possibly tolerate living there - no one considered staying long term, even if they got married. It was just so inhospitable.

It's also hard to imagine what it was like before the internet age. Now we're so used to getting all the news, music, movies, and TV we want in a second, and being able to email anyone at any time.

Before the internet we lived in kind of a black hole. News was hard to come by. You mailed friends letters, and it took weeks to hear back. Some people used short wave radios. Magazines and books were very valuable and when someone gave you a one it was a big deal because they were so hard to find. Keeping the long distance phone bill to a minimum was a struggle.

Many people had homemade degrees, cooked up by a buddy who could do "desktop publishing" or bought in Thailand. It just had to say anything on it to get an E2, there was no scrutiny. I thought they were so cool.

That took real balls!

[rollo]

You nailed a lot of things KINg. It was tough, but then look how many stayed around, many still in korea. I left Korea but i am stillin Asia. there was something about the place. Something that put a hook in you.

Yeah phoning home was the highlight of the week. Books were diamonds. When some let to return home they usually left all their books because they knew what that meant to the poor souls left behind.

I can remember being with a korean friend , we were headed to a museum on a university campus and we walked into a ful scale street battle between protesters and riot police. Just chaos, blood tear gas, screaming bottles sailing through the air. We dodged around it ran up an alley sccoted around the edge of the mob scene when out of the melee a young student came up to me and asked me inn heavily accented korean where i was from and was I a teacher. i talked to him for a minute, while keeping an eye on the violent brawl going on nearby. he then bowed and returned to the action.
I always try to remember that Koreans fought for their Democracy , bought it with their blood. Mybe even with all their faults I admire them in many ways.

So King break out that book!! Its TIME

[slothrop]

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[ghostrider]

I've read the book Seoul Searching - A Year In South Korea. It was short but entertaining. A lot of the anecdotes in the book would make good posts for the freakiest waygook thread. I'm assuming it took place in the 90s because of the prices- 1000 won for taxi fare for example.