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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
The person was advocating supply-side economics in simplistic form. Cheap imported consumer goods are better for the economy and one's own personal finances. Stores like Wal-Mart are representative of that. Barriers to trade and protectionism are always bad. Those stores that are inefficient will be replaced by efficient ones like Wal-Mart and that in theory, the same income earned at mom and pop stores should be transferred to them as they become employees at Wal-Mart.
I say screw it. Pay 10 bucks more per month for less variety and slightly inferior consumer products, much of which gets wasted anyway or is an excess. Gainful employment and small business ownership for your community is preferable to being able to find cheaper low-fat milk provided by a bunch of 4 dollar an hour clerks who won't be able to afford to even have kids to send to the hagwon that employees me.
Gainful employment and ownership, not consumer goods are essential to a good society. Or do you really believe that cheaper milk is going to lead to better prosperity? |
So nothing to do with Bush--that was just all Steelrails crapola.
And I didn't say I was looking to pay less for non-fat milk; I said the mom and pop didn't have it.
Can you give any proof regarding your assertions about pay? What does a produce manager at HomePlus,for example, make?
As for clerks, there would have to be an explosion of mom and pop stores to employ the number of clerks that the big supermarkets do.
Try not to twist my statements in your reply, if you can handle that. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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| actively limiting consumer choices to an extreme degree. |
| Quote: |
| are being inconvenienced in extreme ways |
Only in the 21st century developed world, can someone look out at the S.Korean marketplace and use terms like "extremely limited choice" and "extreme inconvenience".
There may be limited choices, there may be inconvenience, but there is nothing extreme about either one. I think the more proper term would be "very, very slight".
| Quote: |
which means it stimulates economic health in whichever industry you spend it in, and, this is so important I want to put it in boldface, you get more utility for the same amount of money, since you've bought more with it.
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In real terms though, you probably just spend 10 dollars more at Wal-Mart. You spend the same amount. Now you may think that stores like Wal-Mart are the foundation of a healthy economy and a society, I respectfully disagree, though there should be a balance between 'All Mom & Pop' and 'All Wal-Mart'.
But go ahead, rope your cart to the donkey of Mega-stores and cheap consumer goods. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| actively limiting consumer choices to an extreme degree. |
| Quote: |
| are being inconvenienced in extreme ways |
Only in the 21st century developed world, can someone look out at the S.Korean marketplace and use terms like "extremely limited choice" and "extreme inconvenience".
There may be limited choices, there may be inconvenience, but there is nothing extreme about either one. I think the more proper term would be "very, very slight".
| Quote: |
which means it stimulates economic health in whichever industry you spend it in, and, this is so important I want to put it in boldface, you get more utility for the same amount of money, since you've bought more with it.
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In real terms though, you probably just spend 10 dollars more at Wal-Mart. You spend the same amount. Now you may think that stores like Wal-Mart are the foundation of a healthy economy and a society, I respectfully disagree, though there should be a balance between 'All Mom & Pop' and 'All Wal-Mart'.
But go ahead, rope your cart to the donkey of Mega-stores and cheap consumer goods. |
Guess what--this is the 21st century. and the lack of choice in Korea is far from "very, very slight."
Again I ask that you show some evidence for your economic assertions--put up or shut up. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:11 pm Post subject: h |
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Steelrails is partly right. I don't like mega stores, and in American I don't shop at Wallyworld. Spending your money there helps pay for the corporate employee and more development in China. The store employee hardly receives any benefits and there are no full time workers except for a department or store manager.
However, with Korea, without the big stores there are no other options for product selection. Therefore, the only places that have that kind of selection are the big stores. That being said, maybe it's only the foreigners who need that huge selection of goods to choose from and not the Koreans. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: h |
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Steelrails is partly right. I don't like mega stores, and in American I don't shop at Wallyworld. Spending your money there helps pay for the corporate employee and more development in China. The store employee hardly receives any benefits and there are no full time workers except for a department or store manager.
However, with Korea, without the big stores there are no other options for product selection. Therefore, the only places that have that kind of selection are the big stores. That being said, maybe it's only the foreigners who need that huge selection of goods to choose from and not the Koreans. |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:11 pm Post subject: Re: h |
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| nicwr2002 wrote: |
Steelrails is partly right. I don't like mega stores, and in American I don't shop at Wallyworld. Spending your money there helps pay for the corporate employee and more development in China. The store employee hardly receives any benefits and there are no full time workers except for a department or store manager.
However, with Korea, without the big stores there are no other options for product selection. Therefore, the only places that have that kind of selection are the big stores. That being said, maybe it's only the foreigners who need that huge selection of goods to choose from and not the Koreans. |
One doesn't have to shop at Wal-Mart, which is one of the fallacies SR rests his argument on.
There are large corporations, such as Costco and others that treat and pay employees well.
But I think the argument that the only way for a country to experience economic well-being is forcing consumers to pay through the nose doesn't hold water. The restrictions on supermarkets are populist in origin and intent.
As for "needing" a large selection, no one needs it. One could live like an Eskimo and live almost exclusively on fish and water. But it's quite nice not to "need" to.
As for Koreans and huge selection, Korean consumers seem to see choice differently. That's why there are so many varieties of yogurt, milk, and processed cheese yet very few other dairy products. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| atwood wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| actively limiting consumer choices to an extreme degree. |
| Quote: |
| are being inconvenienced in extreme ways |
Only in the 21st century developed world, can someone look out at the S.Korean marketplace and use terms like "extremely limited choice" and "extreme inconvenience".
There may be limited choices, there may be inconvenience, but there is nothing extreme about either one. I think the more proper term would be "very, very slight".
| Quote: |
which means it stimulates economic health in whichever industry you spend it in, and, this is so important I want to put it in boldface, you get more utility for the same amount of money, since you've bought more with it.
|
In real terms though, you probably just spend 10 dollars more at Wal-Mart. You spend the same amount. Now you may think that stores like Wal-Mart are the foundation of a healthy economy and a society, I respectfully disagree, though there should be a balance between 'All Mom & Pop' and 'All Wal-Mart'.
But go ahead, rope your cart to the donkey of Mega-stores and cheap consumer goods. |
Guess what--this is the 21st century. and the lack of choice in Korea is far from "very, very slight."
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Oh please, if you really think there is a dramatic lack of consumer choice here in Korea you are completely spoiled. May I ask where this devastating lack of choice is to be found? Where in staple goods you are so hindered? |
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highstreet
Joined: 13 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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I would say the selection in Korean supermarkets is spot on for Koreans. Which is probably 99% of their customer base. Being American, I'd love to see more, but I don't expect it to happen any time soon.
All I really want are poptarts.  |
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rabidcake
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm not a fan in limiting these big stores to an extent, but has anyone considered economic importance it is to keep smaller stores more competitive? |
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atwood
Joined: 26 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| atwood wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Quote: |
| actively limiting consumer choices to an extreme degree. |
| Quote: |
| are being inconvenienced in extreme ways |
Only in the 21st century developed world, can someone look out at the S.Korean marketplace and use terms like "extremely limited choice" and "extreme inconvenience".
There may be limited choices, there may be inconvenience, but there is nothing extreme about either one. I think the more proper term would be "very, very slight".
| Quote: |
which means it stimulates economic health in whichever industry you spend it in, and, this is so important I want to put it in boldface, you get more utility for the same amount of money, since you've bought more with it.
|
In real terms though, you probably just spend 10 dollars more at Wal-Mart. You spend the same amount. Now you may think that stores like Wal-Mart are the foundation of a healthy economy and a society, I respectfully disagree, though there should be a balance between 'All Mom & Pop' and 'All Wal-Mart'.
But go ahead, rope your cart to the donkey of Mega-stores and cheap consumer goods. |
Guess what--this is the 21st century. and the lack of choice in Korea is far from "very, very slight."
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Oh please, if you really think there is a dramatic lack of consumer choice here in Korea you are completely spoiled. May I ask where this devastating lack of choice is to be found? Where in staple goods you are so hindered? |
Another red herring. How about answering my questions about the dire economic consequences such stores cause and how it was a linchpin of the Bush Administration's economic policy?
And how about canning the loaded words you put in other posters' mouths? Can't you argue without lying?
A person wants a reasonably priced mango or carton of blueberries or raspberries or a pear that can't double as a doorstop and you call them spoiled. You're the drama queen.
You'd be the perfect Korean shopkeeper--can't even dish out a single fact with the tripe you peddle as arguments and then go crying to others when you get called to account. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| In real terms though, you probably just spend 10 dollars more at Wal-Mart. You spend the same amount. |
I don't think you can say "probably" about a hypothetical person/group of people, but even if you do spend the same amount, you get more goods/services if those goods/services are cheaper.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| Now you may think that stores like Wal-Mart are the foundation of a healthy economy and a society, |
I think people being left alone to buy and sell things when and how they want is the foundation of a healthy economic, political, and social structure.
| Steelrails wrote: |
| I respectfully disagree, though there should be a balance between 'All Mom & Pop' and 'All Wal-Mart'. |
There can be no "balance" between freedom and force: any use of the latter leaves the former with the prefix "semi-".
| Steelrails wrote: |
| But go ahead, rope your cart to the donkey of Mega-stores and cheap consumer goods. |
You've grossly mischaracterized my position on this issue. |
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nicwr2002
Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:21 am Post subject: h |
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What about lost wages to those that aren't able to work on those two days? Also, because of being closed, will there be little price hikes on items that were cheap?
Small stores don't want to have to compete. I hate going into those claustrophobic stores with product strewn ever which-a-way and having to step over bags of ramyun. I read an article before that said people would rather shop at Target, because the store was neatly organized even though the prices were a bit higher. I'm not sure if Target is still doing a good job with that now though. The small stores need to look at themselves and figure out how they can appeal to customers, so that they will shop at their stores instead of considering them CU's and GS25's. |
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denverdeath
Joined: 21 May 2005
Location: Boo-sahn
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| Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 8:15 am Post subject: Re: h |
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| nicwr2002 wrote: |
What about lost wages to those that aren't able to work on those two days? Also, because of being closed, will there be little price hikes on items that were cheap?
Small stores don't want to have to compete. I hate going into those claustrophobic stores with product strewn ever which-a-way and having to step over bags of ramyun. I read an article before that said people would rather shop at Target, because the store was neatly organized even though the prices were a bit higher. I'm not sure if Target is still doing a good job with that now though. The small stores need to look at themselves and figure out how they can appeal to customers, so that they will shop at their stores instead of considering them CU's and GS25's. |
i agree w most of what u said in this thread as i esp want more selection and better prices; but, some of the bigbox stores here seem to clutter up their aisles w too many workers. it's often worse trying to get around the samplers and meat barkers than the worth u might get by getting some half-decent salsa, hamburger, and beer. have also seen milk cheaper at some smaller joints; not the smallest("true" mom and pops that live in the back room) though. anyway, i'll continue buying 90% of my stuff at the bigger places, so, yeah, the gov't definitely failed on this issue, at least w me. i was REALLY annoyed one day when the nearby emart was closed on wednesday. what happened to sunday!?! anyway, i grudgingly went back the next morning, knowing full well that the little joints near my place had nothing that i was looking for. |
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Gnawbert
Joined: 23 Oct 2007
Location: The Internet
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| Posted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Just got burnt going to a HomePlus that was closed on Wednesday.
I find very little appealing at the mom and pop shops and therefore shop at HomePlus, where I can get everything from curry in a jar to good cheese and a TV if I want. I'm sorry, but this law is asinine, inconvenient, and I have zero sympathy for the local stores survival if they can't be bothered to offer me something worthwhile for my tastes.
Bleep 'em. |
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dairyairy
Joined: 17 May 2012
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:12 am Post subject: |
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| highstreet wrote: |
I would say the selection in Korean supermarkets is spot on for Koreans. Which is probably 99% of their customer base. Being American, I'd love to see more, but I don't expect it to happen any time soon.
All I really want are poptarts. |
Why does Korea block the import of items like this that are not manufactured in Korea? |
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