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spilot101
Joined: 05 Sep 2012
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 Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| To contain communism. The capabilities of the S.Korean army and nation are vastly different now compared to then. |
Yep. So are the priorities. The pool of cheap labor has been the US's main interest in Asia since the 70s (paired with cheap natural resources of South America). |
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Captain Corea
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Did anyone notice this part of the story...
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| A 30-year-old police officer surnamed Lim was near the scene helping a foreigner who was locked up in a bank ATM booth when a taxi driver surnamed Choi, 38, who witnessed the soldiers running away from the subway station, told him what he saw and asked the officer to get in his cab. |
What the heck? Guys trapped in ATM machines, taxi drivers giving high-speed chase. All this story needs now is for the unidentified 3rd person to be a midget.
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| near the Hamilton Hotel at 11:53 p.m. on Saturday.... |
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| ... followed them into a dead end in Seongsu-dong, Gwangjin District, eastern Seoul, at 12:10 a.m. yesterday |
Nice job with traffic and all. Also,isn't Seongsu-dong in Seongsu-gu? |
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Stan Rogers
Joined: 20 Aug 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| The Korean authorites will punish them, and when they are done; the US army will punish them. |
People keep saying things like this; however, it's an ill-informed comment. Under the UCMJ, if the accused are punished by a court, even a foreign court, they cannot legally be charged with the same crime by a military court ("double jeopardy" also is a concept in military justice). On the other hand, depending on the severity of the crime and/or sentence, the accused may be administratively separated. Technically, that's not a punishment; it's just an "administrative matter."
Yes, I know that in the past some military members have been punished twice for the same offense. That was in the distant past. Some have been punished for "damage to government property" when they somehow injured themselves, although members of the military are not now and have never been military property. |
I didn't say they would be put on trial twice for the same crime. I said they would be punished by the Korean authorities, and when they are done; the US army will punish them (administratively). I can guarantee that does not involve anything pleasant. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| the US army will punish them (administratively). I can guarantee that does not involve anything pleasant. |
From what I've seen, it certainly doesn't. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
| Stan Rogers wrote: |
| The Korean authorites will punish them, and when they are done; the US army will punish them. |
People keep saying things like this; however, it's an ill-informed comment. Under the UCMJ, if the accused are punished by a court, even a foreign court, they cannot legally be charged with the same crime by a military court ("double jeopardy" also is a concept in military justice). On the other hand, depending on the severity of the crime and/or sentence, the accused may be administratively separated. Technically, that's not a punishment; it's just an "administrative matter."
Yes, I know that in the past some military members have been punished twice for the same offense. That was in the distant past. Some have been punished for "damage to government property" when they somehow injured themselves, although members of the military are not now and have never been military property. |
I didn't say they would be put on trial twice for the same crime. I said they would be punished by the Korean authorities, and when they are done; the US army will punish them (administratively). I can guarantee that does not involve anything pleasant. |
No, they won't be punished again by the military. Administrative Punishment is a different critter than Administrative Separation. Administrative Punishment is used in lieu of a court-martial and is not considered a conviction. Administrative separation, once again, is not a punishment; it's a consequence of one of a short list of conditions. One of those conditions is conviction by a civilian court for serious offenses.
FYI:
- Admin Punishment = "Article 15"/"Captain's Mast"/"Office Hours"
- Admin Sep = Separation from the Service, aka Discharge. The character of service will be decided based on a matrix in the Department of Defense regulation governing separation from service.
- Court-martial = One of three levels of United States military tribunal which can convict an accused military member. The court-martial board, depending on the level, can also order the accused to be discharged from the service with a Bad Conduct Discharge or a Dishonorable Discharge, in addition to ordering the accused to be imprisoned.
- Civil court = A court of competent jurisdiction which is not a US military court.
Look, I don't know--and it doesn't matter to me one way or the other--if you were ever in the US military. Your posts in this thread on the subject are simply incorrect. |
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Smithington
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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If the details as reported are true, the soldiers were idiots and deserve whatever punishment they get. Complete fools who embarrass the 99% of army personnel who obey the law and conduct themselves responsibly in public. Noone should be angrier at them than their own comrades....Having said that, I have found a link to the Helios 'shooting' incident a few years back. The response to the authorities was just a little bit different. (There was a long thread on Daves about it, but I can't locate it.) Anyway, it is an interesting read.
http://www.koreanesl.com/esl.php?board=teacherforum&command=body&no=8426 |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
If the details as reported are true, the soldiers were idiots and deserve whatever punishment they get. Complete fools who embarrass the 99% of army personnel who obey the law and conduct themselves responsibly in public. Noone should be angrier at them than their own comrades....Having said that, I have found a link to the Helios 'shooting' incident a few years back. The response to the authorities was just a little bit different. (There was a long thread on Daves about it, but I can't locate it.) Anyway, it is an interesting read.
http://www.koreanesl.com/esl.php?board=teacherforum&command=body&no=8426 |
So, you're saying the police treat situations unfairly at times?  |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Smithington wrote: |
If the details as reported are true, the soldiers were idiots and deserve whatever punishment they get. Complete fools who embarrass the 99% of army personnel who obey the law and conduct themselves responsibly in public. Noone should be angrier at them than their own comrades....Having said that, I have found a link to the Helios 'shooting' incident a few years back. The response to the authorities was just a little bit different. (There was a long thread on Daves about it, but I can't locate it.) Anyway, it is an interesting read.
http://www.koreanesl.com/esl.php?board=teacherforum&command=body&no=8426 |
Dude, the guy was firing at random people, led people on a 100 mph car chase through Seoul (endangering lives), and attempted to run over the cop (who still fired a warning shot) before the cop fired.
The other incident was a fight between bouncers and drunks at 3AM.
Of course the response level is going to be completely different. Cops in any nation would fire live ammo at a car attempting to run them over (committing assault with a deadly weapon or even attempted murder). No sane cops would start shooting when it comes to a drunken brawl between bouncers and patrons. And yes, if you start firing a pellet gun at completely random people and flee in a car, expect the cops to give chase. |
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newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:26 am Post subject: |
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| What is the outcome of the incident that several soldiers harassing a Korean woman in a subway? Anyone know? |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| newb wrote: |
| What is the outcome of the incident that several soldiers harassing a Korean woman in a subway? Anyone know? |
I believe it was revealed that the behavior of the soldiers was embellished by either the media or the witnesses. |
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newb
Joined: 27 Aug 2012
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| optik404 wrote: |
| newb wrote: |
| What is the outcome of the incident that several soldiers harassing a Korean woman in a subway? Anyone know? |
I believe it was revealed that the behavior of the soldiers was embellished by either the media or the witnesses. |
Then could this "toy" gun shooting incident be the same? |
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optik404
Joined: 24 Jun 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 3:38 am Post subject: |
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| newb wrote: |
| optik404 wrote: |
| newb wrote: |
| What is the outcome of the incident that several soldiers harassing a Korean woman in a subway? Anyone know? |
I believe it was revealed that the behavior of the soldiers was embellished by either the media or the witnesses. |
Then could this "toy" gun shooting incident be the same? |
Doubt it, I saw video of it on the news last night. A bunch of cops were surrounding the car and the driver took off. Also there was a recording from a taxi that showed the car flying past them. Along with all the damage they caused from running in to parked cars.
The soldiers are lucky that they didn't run over a cop or civilian. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 4:25 am Post subject: |
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Idiots , extremely lucky some one was not killed. K-cops seem to have handled it well.
The U.S. military is in South Korea because China, Russia, Japan and South Korea want the U.S. military in South Korea.
The day the soldiers leave, the English teachers leave. Thats a no brainer. |
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Airborne9
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
The day the soldiers leave, the English teachers leave. Thats a no brainer. |
Yeah of course. If the Soldiers leave SK there is no incentive for Koreans to learn English, therefore no demand for teachers to be here. Who would have thought that the current global language is based on what the US army does in SK.
If any English teachers stay, I suppose they will just have to put up with Kim Jung UN pushing them around since the 30K US troops are the only thing stopping him. |
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