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smithy
Joined: 17 Aug 2009
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 Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Incredibly, this 'debate' is even more boring than the OP. Quite an achievement, fellas. |
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Kuval
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| smithy wrote: |
| Incredibly, this 'debate' is even more boring than the OP. Quite an achievement, fellas. |
I don't know why pointless flaming isn't illegal in this forum. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| diver wrote: |
| [ You had issues with 6 out of 19 points... |
That was just a start. Here I'll address the others YOU enumerated because apparently you just can't let it go.
| Quote: |
(1) -the paperwork can be a nightmare, and so can dealing with recruiters. (Pretty common, don't you think? For a country that's so wired, and BRAGS about how wired they are, that's just a joke. And it's a fair heads up to new applicants, don't you think?)
(2) -try the food, it's AWESOME (positive)
(3) -always try to talk to a teacher at the school you're going to work at (good advice)
(4) -you'll get homesick (true)
(5)-many of the people you meet aren't qualified teachers back home (true, no?)
(6) -cut the negative weird people out of your life (good advice)
(7) -there's lots to do in Korea (true and positive)
( -make an effort to learn Korean (good advice, and positive)
(9) -make an effort to learn the customs (good advice and positive)
(10)-if you see a Korean doing it, you can do it too (well, that gives a lot of latitude on both sides of good and bad, but learning GOOD habits from the locals at least is not a bad idea. Even the Koreans are fond of saying "When in Rome...")
(11)-be patient you'll get used to things and won't be the new guy anymore (true and encouraging)
(12)-be polite to the teacher you're replacing, they can help you (common sense, no?)
(13)-research before you come and be aware that some of what you read will be incorrect. (True and good advice. Hell, some of the critics of the OP are the first to chime in when someone gets cheated by their boss and say "Well, you should have researched your job. Now you're criticizing a guy who says "research your job". Make up your GD minds)
(14)-the country has great benefits, take advantage of them (true enough, especially for some Americans I would guess in terms of health care) |
1. I disagree with this. The paperwork is not a nightmare...not if you are an organized person.
2. This is highly subjective...some people detest it some people like it. As far as I am concerned some of it is awesome, some of it is terrible and most is pretty 'meh"(I can take it or leave it).
3. Talk to a teacher by all means...but take what he or she says with a few grains of salt.
4. You'll get homesick (common sense) see number 6.
5. This is true but how does that relate to good advice? It seems a bit
gratuitous.
6. As far as cutting the negative people out of your life...don't most people do or try to do that everywhere? Is this just not common sense (which by the way has been said plenty of times already on this very board itself)? Does it really need to be said yet again?
7. As for lots to do in Korea...this is debatable. For everyone who says something of the sort there's someone who says something like 'once you hiked a few mountains, seen a few temples, visited a few bars...it's pretty much all the same'. If you liked some of the stuff there is to do in Korea back home you'll lean towards the first, if not you're more likely to hold the second view. A short list would have been helpful to make his point.
8.Make an effort to learn Korean...again this has been debated. But I'll give him a point for that.
9. Make an effort to learn the customs...okay that's another point.
10. I strongly disagree with number 10. True YOU qualified it by saying we should follow GOOD habits...but that was YOUR qualification and not his.
11. Again a common sense truism. (see 4 and 6).
12. Well this one is part of 3 but isn't that just ordinary civility? Shouldn't we be polite to everyone unless they warrant otherwise? But I'll give him a point for that.
13. Again research before you come. Okay but this is a point that's been done to death, resurrected and done to death again on this board. Not to mention it's common sense to do research if you are going to fly halfway around the world. And to answer your criticism people are not complaining about him researching, they are taking exception to the method and explanation.
14. The country has great benefits...again this is and has been debated ad nauseaum
So 4 maybe five points out of the 19 listed (yes I only listed 14 here, we've already discussed the others).
Anyway the poll results speak for themselves. |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:16 pm Post subject: Edited because of multiple post |
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Multiple post.
Last edited by earthquakez on Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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earthquakez
Joined: 10 Nov 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: My reflection on teaching in Korea. ----MY EXPERIENCE! |
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| Kuval wrote: |
So far, I've only been here for 5 months... but I feel like I've learned a lot in that time. I wish I had read something that wasn't over the top cynical or ridiculously happy before I came over here. Nothing really seemed too balanced. It was either, "I hate this place so bad, everyone's stupid," or, "Korea is the greatest thing that ever happened to anything ever."
I'm going to try and tackle this country in one post... and I hope it's helpful to someone some day.
Looking for a job was ridiculously scandalous. I remember shoddy paperwork, multiple job offers, people sending me offer sheets from the wrong clients... but never fear- if they ever request your paper work (from what I can tell) you're pretty much in. Don't worry about how scandalous it seems. If it were Mexico or Nigeria, the circumstances surrounding your job offer should probably be a lot more legitimate looking. Anyways, try to do research before you come here as to the area you're going to be in and the school you're going to be teaching at. Know that this research is (quite often) going to lead to incorrect beliefs about your circumstances, but it's always good to come from somewhere. You know, to have some sort of anchored beliefs.
I've decided to teach at GnB. I did a lot of research about them, and they're a very reputable hagwon. Hagwon is just what they call private schools. Anyways... yeah. Turns out, my GnB has a very scandalous history with someone trying to pillage the company's assets, then fleeing the country, then they sold the school to some other old dude... now the school is in shambles and the number of students is dwindling. I got unlucky. USUALLY, GnB is going to be an outstanding choice. On the internet, I found many people saying it was awesome and only a few people saying they had a bad experience. But that's what I mean. Do your research, but come on your own accord. Don't really pay much attention to internet research.
Next, try and see if you can contact the teacher you're replacing by phone. Get them to talk to you about what the circumstances of your school and life are going to be in Korea. I didn't do this, but I wish I had. It would have helped me ease into things a lot better. Just tell your recruiter you'd like to speak with the teacher you're replacing. They'll almost always setup a meeting. Don't worry about impressing your replacement. Try to get serious answers to serious questions... and don't offend them cuz they'll usually help you out by leaving you all sorts of resources.
So when it's finally time to arrive in Korea, I went through a strange group of phases. First, I was in the tourist phase. Everything was awesome... it was Korea. Second, I went through the hatred phase. This phase is not as fun. Many of the teachers you encounter are not going to be qualified to teach back home... in fact, many of them can't find work at all back home. Sometimes this is because there are no jobs, and sometimes it's because they're brainless people. Nevertheless, you will encounter many ... dimwits... in Korea. These people will amaze you with their stupidity and dysfunctional lifestyles. You can't judge them, accept them and move on. If anyone annoys you, don't hesitate to cut them out and move on to the next group of friends. Don't have a short fuse, but definitely... definitely... if someone is bothering you a lot- just find a way to talk to them a lot less. I've had this a couple times, but generally people are pretty nice. I wasn't prepared for all the gossip that goes on behind your back, buttttttt that brings me to the next point!
The social dynamics of groups here... is strange. I live in a small farming community close to Seoul, so it might be different than existing in the big city- but I'd bet it's similar anyways. Essentially, you're arriving into a group of friends that has mostly been together for the better part of a year. Usually you're the newest person and you want to impress people. Don't. Just relax and let it all come to you. People need time to figure out who you are, and just have fun with it. Back home, I was a social superstar. I had built my social network and on any given weekend I could pick from at least 5 awesome things to do. Here in Korea, I was the little guy. I knew nobody, and I didn't have any good friends. Combine that with a rift in the solidarity of the foreigners in my city... and it was all just a big cliquey disaster.
But back to the social dynamics... so eventually, you'll see people come and go. Sooner or later, you won't be the new guy anymore. This is a good feeling (for me). You get to see yourself in the new person, and all the funny mistakes they make. Nobody can prepare you for all the funny things you're going to do. For instance, I ate fish paste my first week here... but I didn't know what it was so I fried it up and ate it plain. Nobody does that (I don't think). Not even Koreans. Not just that, but I would be very nice to everyone for no real reason. I would be very understanding and try to accept any negative circumstances that surrounded me. It's just the eager beaver attitude you have at first. It's cute.
Then one day, out of the blue, you'll feel like there's no pressure to do anything. Not that there was in the first place... just that, you might have wanted to do something but didn't know what to do. But now you'll feel almost like you're the one making plans to do things that you want to do (because you know about them now) and people will want to join you. Either that, or you just know about things you want to do and so you'll do them.
As far as learning Korean... it might make your stay a lot more pleasant in the beginning if you took a 4 month course or something... but I really don't think very much learning is necessary. Learn the alphabet (hangeul) and all of the sounds everything makes. This is extremely important and some people say it only takes an hour to do. I call those people asshats and liars, but they say it's true. It took me about 10 hours of study/review/thinking to separate my mind from the latin based language system and be able to actually understand the alphabet... and it was over the course of 10 minute intervals within my first month. Also, try to learn hello, goodbye (both ways to say goodbye in formal talk), and thanks. Definitely do this.
Get a Korean boyfriend/girlfriend. When I first came here, I didn't speak Korean and I didn't like the look of Asian girls. It wasn't that I disliked them, it was that I didn't find them attractive. Sooner or later, you realize how sexy they are... and god damn are the majority of them EVER SEXY. Almost every girl I see is gorgeous. I'd say 3% are in the ugly category and maybe 7% are in the "decent but I'm not interested category." The other 90% are in the, "ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME category?" The final 10% (yes, 110%) are in the most beautiful girl in the world category. Yes, that's right, almost every day you will see one girl that amazes you with her looks. And that's in a small town. Yikes.
Anyways, after a few accidental crazy nights with teachers in my school... I finally got my first Korean girlfriend. The sex isn't what you're used to, but it's still nice to have someone close to you. We broke up because I am a "bad man." Still, I'm pretty sure that's just the Korean equivalent to- it's not you, it's me. Every Korean cheats on their wife; so if you're a good person, then they're a bloody idiot for breaking up with you. You must be a bad person for the breakup to happen.
Be eager to learn the language and customs. I haven't been to a language class yet, but I can communicate with Koreans on a kindergarten level. I talk to cab drivers and I always learn new words. I like it a lot, and it's kinda like a game. Usually when Koreans try to teach you Korean, they do it in a horrible way. They'll tell you that you said something correct when you didn't, or they'll say it super fast. Just be patient, you'll get it.
I haven't traveled much, but there's so much to do in Korea that I don't really feel like I've been ripped off. I've seen many parts of Seoul, and many parts of Korea. It's fun. You don't have to go to other places to have fun- although, try to escape to somewhere hot and cheap in the winter. There are many of these places near Korea. I just hate the cold.
If you see a Korean doing it, then you can do it too. They usually want you to be quiet on the bus, but I've seen endless amounts of Koreans being loud and crazy on the bus. It's just a racist double standard for foreigners.
Black people and brown people seem to get the most racism, whereas whites get less... but it's still there. Japanese people are hates probably the most here. My ex gf told me about how they call them monkies. It's a strange place sometimes.
The food here is awesome. It'd be a crime to not partake in the food. Try to avoid eating western as much as possible... and only eat a meal or two a month western if you can. This is both healthier and cheaper. If you must get Pizza... you NEED TO SPLURGE ON THE DOUGH. Dominoes is like $30 for 1 pepperoni pizza... but fucking worth it man. If you get some shitty cheap Pizza School Pizza... you may as well eat cardboard. Do buy some Sriracha (some thai spicy sauce... made from red peppers). And always eat the food.
Take advantage of your benefits AS MUCH AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE. They have awesome coverage here for everything. I swear, this country has the best medicine I've ever seen... and I'm CANADIAN! True, in Canada I pay $0 per doctors visit... but here, I pay like $3 and I can get damned near free dental. As well, I have to pay for my prescriptions in full in Canada unless I'm covered through my work. In Korea, as a foreign teacher, you're always covered.
Don't be afraid to make mistakes in Korea, there's almost never a negative circumstance for your actions. Unless a man is with a woman, you can always hit on girls. They'll mostly cover their eyes and pretend like they hate you... which is disturbing as hell, but every so often you'll meet somebody sexy that wants to party. I struck out something like 15 times in one night in a huge club... whereas back home I've never done that to any such degree. Maybe 4 or 5 strikeouts a night, but some girl within 5 girls is definitely going to want to at least talk to me. Here... I dunno, I've still got to figure out how to mack girls in a nightclub. I'm pretty sure the only way to do it is through "booking," which just means you sit in the VIP room, buy lots of overpriced alcohol and pay money for the waiters to bring you the sexiest girls. The girls almost never say no, and they steal your booze, and then you can get their numbers.
If you like hookers, this is the place for you. I don't know much about them, but they're more prevalent than in Vegas. It's illegal, but the cops don't care. There's a brothel right next to a police station in Pyeongtaek. It's a very strange place sometimes.
Just get used to it. |
Question for the OP - are you seriously this deluded and ignorant or are you joking? And what's with the caps at the end of your post title - do you honestly think that thousands upon thousands of foreigners' experiences in Korea come way behind your own?
A few points for you. The job process is 'scandalous'?  I'm the first to admit that many recruiters spoil the job process by their tactics but to suggest the process is corrupt which is what you are doing, is an exaggeration. Throwing in Mexico and Nigeria there is stupid, especially since Nigeria remains a very dangerous country for non Nigerians who don't have wealth and high positions to protect them.
Mexico? Come on, Korea is a far more orderly society and big steps have been taken to get rid of bribery etc. In Mexico it's unashamed and part of everyday life. Did you have to pay a recruiter to introduce you to a school or to slip a bribe to a Kimmi official? Nope. 
Nope, you CAN'T do whatever because a Korean does it. Full stop.
Get drunk, black out and lie in the gutter or on the sidewalk like many Korean men do and you as a native English speaker will get your wallet taken, probably you'll get kicked in the head by a drunken group of male university students who are very brave in big numbers, and the cops will be called and you'll be woken up, taken to the police station and told you could be charged for public drunkenness. Korean males are allowed to do this, you as a white or black or brown English teacher are not.
Watch middle aged and older Korean men and women jabber on their phones on the subway and in trains - other Koreans don't dare say anything or they don't care. You do it and Koreans will tell you to literally shut up in Korean or English, or complain to subway and train staff, and even call the police on occasions. Laughing in a group of other foreigners will often get the same response.
There are extremely negative circumstances for making mistakes in Korea, depending on what the mistake is. A teacher made a sex video of himself with two consenting Korean women, was sacked from his job and told to leave Korea asap.
Yeah, he shouldn't have posted the damn thing on the net and was a fool but those women looked like seasoned performers and were not the innocents the Korean media tried to make out. The teacher was black and a lot of the outrage I'm sure was to do with that.
Koreans are remarkably forgiving of what their own men do including drunken or violent rampages and constant loitering around for paid sex. Brothels are often in and around normal shopping areas, restaurants and housing so if you are doing the drunk behaviour and looking for paid sex behaviour that Korean males are allowed to do, your students, their parents, etc will be outraged if they see you and report you to your boss or the board of education.
You CAN'T always hit on Korean girls. Korean men usually hate to see foreign men chatting up Korean females, whether these females are single or taken. C***ck blocking is the rule here. There's a lot of resentment and jealousy re foreign males and Korean women.
Even in Seoul which is supposed to have the most sophisticated people in Korea, many nightclubs have an unofficial rule of no to foreign males trying to chat up Korean females.
It's typical of insecure people but it's for real. Keep chatting up those girls who cover their eyes around you and some jealous Korean male will punch you or stomp you outside the club. With all their mates around of course.
As for the 'social superstar at home' comment, I don't think so. |
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northway
Joined: 05 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Earthquakez, the sex video teacher was deported for two reasons:
1) While the women consented to sex, they did not consent to having the sex recorded and put up on the Internet.
2) Production of pornography is illegal in Korea.
He was not persecuted for being foreign.
I have several foreign friends who have ended up in the drunk tank in Korea. No negative repercussions, they were let go the next day, same as would generally happen with a Korean. While there may be cases where foreigners are punished for being drunk, I've never heard of one.
A lot of foreigners are legitimately loud on the bus and subway, often unapologetically. I understand the beef.
Learn how to speak enough Korean to crack the occasional joke and Korean guys will be a lot more friendly. If you're just interested in sleeping with Korean girls but won't give their buddies at the club the time of day, well, that's the kind of thing that's going to get guys a bit annoyed at you anywhere in the world.
And which nightclubs are these that don't allow foreigners to chat with local girls?
Seriously, are we talking about the same country here? |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:13 am Post subject: |
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I'm sorry TUM, but are you claiming that because something has been debated before it is wrong?
How well do you understand research? If the OP can't say "every Korean", then you can't honestly claim that this poll means anything. Small sample size, not a random sample, etc. Further the poll question is "Do you like this post?", not "Do you agree or disagree with most of the points in this post?"
I did qualify some of what the OP said (where he was vague), only because I was trying to be positive about the whole thing. I did not, unlike others, come into he thread looking for a chance to demean and belittle another poster.
Again, I have to ask, "Why?" What's wrong with you? |
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