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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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 Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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| F-22s can engage up to 6-8 targets at a time with their onboard computers. |
Have the F-22s not be roundly condemned as a waste of money and inferior to Russian and Chinese fighter jets? |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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KimchiNinja
Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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"Pack a bag with at least 4 liters of water, chocolate, spam/tuna, maybe crackers, essential documents, a few clothing items, baby wipes, toothbrush & toothpaste (perhaps a razor and shaving cream), lighters, flashlight, and a knife."
What are the baby wipes for? When we crap ourselves seeing the NK nuke falling on our heads?
Sorry, I can't be bothered to take any of this seriously...
Last edited by KimchiNinja on Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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young_clinton
Joined: 09 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Ranman wrote: |
Aerospace technology has reached a point where numbers don't mean much. F-22s can engage up to 6-8 targets at a time with their onboard computers. |
The retired F-14 Tomcats could engage 4 aircraft.
Anyhow the pilots have to regularly train and have flight time, which I doubt happens in North Korea. I think North Korea thinks in terms of 'just seem and look vicious and everybody will be afraid of us'. Look at the archaic bayonets on their guns. No modern army is going to put those on their guns. It just projects what they are, vicious, psychopathic nutcases. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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| The current Wikipedia article on the F-22 Raptor does cast doubt on its reliability and value, but some upgrades have been made: |
So the answer to the North's threats is to send over aircrafts that are inferior to both Russian and Chinese aircrafts?
That doesn't fill me with confidence. |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| The current Wikipedia article on the F-22 Raptor does cast doubt on its reliability and value, but some upgrades have been made: |
So the answer to the North's threats is to send over aircrafts that are inferior to both Russian and Chinese aircrafts?
That doesn't fill me with confidence. |
It's quite a stretch to say the F22 is inferior to Russian and Chinese fighter jets. They have had problems with the oxygen delivery system and pilots getting hypoxia. Yes, it's a major problem that needs to be solved. But as actual fighter jets the F22 is superior to the Russian SU 37 and the Chinese advanced fighters. |
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| They have had problems with the oxygen delivery system and pilots getting hypoxia. Yes, it's a major problem that needs to be solved. But as actual fighter jets the F22 is superior to the Russian SU 37 and the Chinese advanced fighters. |
Thanks for trying but that doesn"t fill me with confidence either. Hypoxia? I didn't even know what that was. |
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Ranman
Joined: 18 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| F-22s can engage up to 6-8 targets at a time with their onboard computers. |
Have the F-22s not be roundly condemned as a waste of money and inferior to Russian and Chinese fighter jets? |
What Chinese and Russian fighters have they been considered inferior to? |
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cabeza
Joined: 29 Sep 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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It's the first fifth generation fighter, so there are always going to be teething troubles. The Chinese Chengdu J ?? (cant remember the model number of the 5th gen) is still in development and they are probably coming up against similar problems.
At the end of the the day the US air force is the strongest air force by a country mile and then some. The likely hood of actually having to engage NK fighters is low. US forth and third gen fighters would still annihilate them. As someone else said, NK pilots, I imagine, would have had very little opportunity for real life simulations and training.
Air superiority is one of the things we don't have to worry about. In my opinion. |
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OneWayTraffic
Joined: 14 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| They have had problems with the oxygen delivery system and pilots getting hypoxia. Yes, it's a major problem that needs to be solved. But as actual fighter jets the F22 is superior to the Russian SU 37 and the Chinese advanced fighters. |
Thanks for trying but that doesn"t fill me with confidence either. Hypoxia? I didn't even know what that was. |
How about this then. In mock combats vs F-15s the F-22 has proven so superior that even vs 4-1 odds or more, the F-15s didn't stand a chance. The kill ratio is 30:1. and that is versus the best pilots that America can offer, with the same pilots flying on both sides at times. It just didn't matter.
http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-dewline/2012/02/top-usaf-general-explains-exac.html
Even the regular old f-15 has over 100 air to air kills with no losses in real dogfights.
So we basically have something superior to something superior to the best the North Koreans have.
Not to mention that the USA have all the force multipliers on their side. Satelite intel, AWACS, modern air to air missiles and the rest of it.
The North has a lot of old fighters with old electronics, old weapons, and next to none pilot training or real combat experience.
A 20 year gap in development in air warfare basically means that numbers don't matter. The only hope that North Korea would have is that the USA will run out of missiles before the Norks run out of aircraft. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| World Traveler wrote: |
| Threequalseven wrote: |
| First, how much military power does NK even have? They don't even have military aircraft. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_People%27s_Air_Force
North Korea has more than triple the number of military aircraft as South Korea.
South Korea's air force:
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| The ROKAF has about 500 combat aircraft |
North Korea's air force:
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| between 1,600 and 1,700 aircraft of different types |
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Le sigh. This is what happens when you have statistics without the expertise to analyze the data.
As was said, the bulk of those fighters are outdated. Those that didn't do the smart thing and flee to China would be blown up on the runway or shotdown within minutes of taking off.
| Quote: |
| Have the F-22s not be roundly condemned as a waste of money and inferior to Russian and Chinese fighter jets? |
I'd love to hear about the Russian or Chinese made jet that has managed to down the F-22s predecessor, the F-15, in Air-to-Air combat.
Any clue as to the score on that one? I'll give you a hint- one side is up by 100 and pitching a shutout (keeping a clean sheet for you Commonwealthers).
| Quote: |
So the answer to the North's threats is to send over aircrafts that are inferior to both Russian and Chinese aircrafts?
That doesn't fill me with confidence. |
Have confidence because to suggest that the F-22 is inferior is a crock of crap.
| Quote: |
| US forth and third gen fighters would still annihilate them. |
I don't think the U.S. has any 3rd generation fighters still in service beyond training or adversary roles.
Regardless, Even if North Korea had a few more modern aircraft, that wouldn't solve the problem.
The reason the US is so dominant isn't just because of their aircraft, it's because of their command and control and their ability to track targets and relay those targets to airborne fighters and to supplement the data they are receiving. It's not the F-15 or the F-22, it's the AWACS aircraft that's the real battle winner. North Korea has nothing comparable.
The only thing the US/ROK has to worry about is the DPRK's air defenses. While not decisive, they certainly could be a pain, even if many of them are outdated or of limited capability.
==================================
Just for fun- Watch out! Iran has a stealth fighter too. Better be careful- they might be headed over to North Korea. Our F-22s are done for! Head for the hills!
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/02/02/286875/irans-fighter-jet-can-evade-radars/ |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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Seoulman69
Joined: 14 Dec 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| I'd love to hear about the Russian or Chinese made jet that has managed to down the F-22s predecessor, the F-15, in Air-to-Air combat. |
This video seems to think the F-22s are useless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27qdB1D0s9M
There is also this quote:
Roger Cliff, senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation, states that "What we need is to be able to put 25 jets in the air and take down 75 of theirs, without many losses. But it�s just not going to be that one-sided anymore" and "We have become accustomed to a world where our air power is dominant, but that dominance is now in question."
If Russia and or China get involved there's a good chance things can go wrong very quickly for the US. The US haven't exactly impressed with their recent war history.
I'm scared of North Korea because they could set off a chain of events which result in world war 3. None of us know what will happen. We can make guesses but nobody knows. |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'd love to hear about the Russian or Chinese made jet that has managed to down the F-22s predecessor, the F-15, in Air-to-Air combat. |
This video seems to think the F-22s are useless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27qdB1D0s9M
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http://www.rand.org/news/press/2008/09/25.html
Thursday
September 25, 2008
Andrew Hoehn, Director of RAND Project Air Force, made the following statement today:
�Recently, articles have appeared in the Australian press with assertions regarding a war game in which analysts from the RAND Corporation were involved. Those reports are not accurate. RAND did not present any analysis at the war game relating to the performance of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, nor did the game attempt detailed adjudication of air-to-air combat. Neither the game nor the assessments by RAND in support of the game undertook any comparison of the fighting qualities of particular fighter aircraft.� |
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diver
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Seoulman69 wrote: |
There is also this quote:
Roger Cliff, senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation, states that "What we need is to be able to put 25 jets in the air and take down 75 of theirs, without many losses. But it�s just not going to be that one-sided anymore" and "We have become accustomed to a world where our air power is dominant, but that dominance is now in question." |
This is interesting, and something the US will have to adapt to if they wish to maintain dominance. But, in the context of the original article, they are talking about ten years in the future (at least) not right now.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/01/18/an-end-to-america-s-air-invincibility.html
Another thing to keep in mind is that the F117 stealth fighter (attack) aircraft became operational in 1981. It actually flew in Operation Just Cause (Panama, 1989). It was Operational for six years before its existence was known to the general public. It makes me wonder what goodies the USAF has up their sleeve right now that we don't know about  |
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