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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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Shinawi
Joined: 18 Mar 2013 Location: Korea
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 3:13 am Post subject: |
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| rollo wrote: |
| Oh well then why does China back north Korea and why didnt China allow Macarthur to unify the country? |
China was worried about a capitalist superpower (the United States) approaching right at the border. China's communism was at the early stage. A strong capitalist neighbor would've been very influential in a way that the Chinese government didn't want at that time. |
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falco

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
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Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 4:41 am Post subject: |
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| Still think I'm the blowhard? |
As a matter of fact, yes.
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| falco, comment? Still backing this guy? Still think his head is on straighter than mine? How's that expert analysis working out for ya there falco? |
I bow before thee in prostration Oh Superior One.....
Sorry I couldnt reply sooner but some of us actually have lives that dont revolve entirely around squabbling, bickering and 'proving our expertise' on public internet forums. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| falco wrote: |
As a matter of fact, yes.
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And you base this off of your years of study of military affairs and your knowledge of military systems, history, diplomacy, and economics? |
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falco

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
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Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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No. I base it on a your anal-retentive postings on this forum.
Have a nice day. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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So it's not based on what is being said but how it is being said.
Sorry, when it comes to analyzing military capability you have to focus on what someone says, not how they say it. The capabilities of armies and the likelihood of things occurring don't change on how nicely people describe things. It is based on fact and science. |
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rollo
Joined: 10 May 2006 Location: China
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Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:00 am Post subject: |
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You are right. israel would want to make sure that South korea has the bomb because it would be in their interest to see a nuclear Asia.
taiwan which is Chinese ethnics would fight against their brother.
malaysia which has a huge chinese poulation is going to back South korea instead of China.
Actually I think the unification would come from with in.
the same way Japan took over korea , with the help of South Koreans.
South korea could not win a nuclear exchange with China!! i truly believe that.
South koreas navy would be powerless against a combined Chinese and north korean navy.
Northkorean forces would be upgraded by the Chinese, no doubt about that. So lets take the 50year old equipment off the table. there is a reason they are building those bridges into the North.
korea gives them control on north Asia, threatens japan and also changes the strategic balance with Russia.
Geography never changes, strategies are built around geopraphy.
South korea would roll over for their Chinese master. History; korea has either been dominated protected by China or japan. there is no long history of korea being entirely independent. Either under Japanese or Chinese control, usually with the complaiance of the korean people.
I will take history and geography and you can have the Royal Thai navy sweeping the chinese fleet from the seas. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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rollo. I don't doubt that the Chinese military is superior and could steamroll Korea. The question is, do they have to? Would they want to? The United States could roll into the Bahamas, but why should it? The gains don't correlate to the costs.
If North Korea falls, United Korea would be a natural trading partner and would grow closer.
How's this though? A rollo-esqe scenario, but one that has a touch more plausibility. China plays the diplomatic game of playing off Korea and Japan against each other. China can't invade every country left and right. Why not start building alliances and playing rivals off against each other? |
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falco

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry, when it comes to analyzing military capability you have to focus on what someone says, not how they say it. The capabilities of armies and the likelihood of things occurring don't change on how nicely people describe things. It is based on fact and science. |
No, I wasnt analyzing military capability, I was analyzing you when I made that particular remark. Specifically your pompous, petulant style of postings on this forum. Read the post again. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| falco wrote: |
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| Sorry, when it comes to analyzing military capability you have to focus on what someone says, not how they say it. The capabilities of armies and the likelihood of things occurring don't change on how nicely people describe things. It is based on fact and science. |
No, I wasnt analyzing military capability, I was analyzing you when I made that particular remark. Specifically your pompous, petulant style of postings on this forum. Read the post again. |
Military capability is not dependent on me. The capabilities of military systems does not change based on whether or not I'm a douche.
But in the Dave's world an M1-A1 tank looses some of its capability because Steelrails is a blowhard. If he were only more polite, it would be more capable.
Argue the facts, not my tone. We're talking about war, not The Oscars. |
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falco

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| We're talking about war, not The Oscars. |
Your the one talking about war, not me. Your the expert, not me.
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| But in the Dave's world an M1-A1 tank looses some of its capability because Steelrails is a blowhard. |
Who the hell mentioned anything about M1 tanks? Not me anyway.
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| Military capability is not dependent on me. The capabilities of military systems does not change based on whether or not I'm a douche. |
Dont sell yourself so short my friend. We all hang on every fact and statistic that pours forth from that 'scientific' mind of yours.  |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011 Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Even if North Korea would completely annihilate South Korea and won a quality victory, there's a bigger question than any military conflict? How would North Korea clean up the mess afterwards when China, Russia, and the USA will pretty much murder Pyongyang's elite class in the most brutal way.
BTW, do people really forget about what they learned in history class?
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| In every contemporary war, it's not about how you start a war, it's more about how you need to look at the consequence of a war or 30-50 years after the war. |
Can North Korea's elite class survive and sustain after the military makes a big mess? Impossible.
But anyways, let's look at this in a different perspective that most expats often forget.
Let's look at this strictly in a general South Korean point of view explained in 2 sentences: the bigger problems are South Korea's irrecoverable bad economy and on-going self-destructible politics. We shouldn't really worry about North Korea and her military antics in the first place.
Whether you like it or not, this pretty much sums up the opinions of your average South Korean.
Besides, South Korea is internally a very fragmented and divided country without any help from North Korea. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| falco wrote: |
| Quote: |
| We're talking about war, not The Oscars. |
Your the one talking about war, not me. Your the expert, not me.
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| But in the Dave's world an M1-A1 tank looses some of its capability because Steelrails is a blowhard. |
Who the hell mentioned anything about M1 tanks? Not me anyway.
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| Military capability is not dependent on me. The capabilities of military systems does not change based on whether or not I'm a douche. |
Dont sell yourself so short my friend. We all hang on every fact and statistic that pours forth from that 'scientific' mind of yours.  |
Do you care to actually address the technical capabilities of the US Army or just my arrogant tone? What the heck does my tone have to do with the situation at hand?
If you can't argue the technical capabilities of the Nork and ROK militaries, then what's left to talk about? |
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geldedgoat
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Do you care to actually address the technical capabilities of the US Army or just my arrogant tone? What the heck does my tone have to do with the situation at hand?
If you can't argue the technical capabilities of the Nork and ROK militaries, then what's left to talk about? |
Surely we've all spent enough time in Korea (and internet forums) to recognize an attempt at face-saving when we see it? |
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falco

Joined: 26 Nov 2005
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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| If you can't argue the technical capabilities of the Nork and ROK militaries, then what's left to talk about? |
As I think you are well aware, the bone of contention was about the OPs original posting. Was it or wasnt it (sending B52 bombers flying over S.Korea) supposed to send a message to those concerned that the US was committed to defending the ROK, come what may. That is the proposition we were talking about and also the one you were called out on. The general concenus was that it probably was a message to the North Koreans, Chinese and probably also the S.Korean public that the US was deadly serious about defending the ROK, as you youself admitted a little later on. |
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Steelrails

Joined: 12 Mar 2009 Location: Earth, Solar System
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Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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The bone of contention was the hoopla over sending "Nuclear-Capable" B-52s. Not to mention the utter amateurishness of the assumption that the North Koreans were going to be like "Holy Crap! They have B-52s. I didn't know about that! I didn't expect the U.S. to back Korea even though they were staging war games together, but after that B-52 flew overhead, its back to the drawing board". I'm sure that threw a real monkey wrench in their plans as they were already staging war games.
Now, publicizing it is certainly part of the message.
Again, here's how it works- DoD bigwig has to give a press conference. In everyone of these they choose a system to highlight as "demonstrating our commitment", no matter what who the ally is. Usually there's some connection to Pentagon funding with the system involved. They then throw out some generic statement like "Our deployment of system Y, highlights our commitment to continued partnership with country X". Anyone who follows military affairs and foreign policy knows how generic that statement is and how it gets thrown out every two weeks.
Those that get all hysterical about it just come across as rank amateurs. It's like in sports if some manager says "We have an interest in player X on team Y", rank amateurs will scream how they're about to trade for that player. Where as real fans know that's just part of the whole game and rumor mill and doesn't mean much.
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Surely we've all spent enough time in Korea (and internet forums) to recognize an attempt at face-saving when we see it? |
Surely we've all spent enough time to recognize when a poster doesn't have a clue about what he's talking about. Falco clearly has a very amateurish understanding of military history and military equipment.
He can't even argue the technical capabilities, just "my tone".
Again, for the 100th time, my tone does not change the capabilities of North Korean or U.S. military systems. Falco is upset because I come across as an internet know-it-all. I'm upset at falco because the guy is basically ignorant of the topic at hand, but is trying to suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about simply because of my tone. |
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